I agree. It’s not “too weak to play”.
You can play it and do good if you enjoy the build.
But it’s worlds different than the builds out there currently after they nerfed Lamentation to 0%.
My point is that the nerf was completely unwarranted, particularly since they’re allowing other classes to do what they’re currently doing.
How can anyone rationally claim a GR 140 is “too high” for Barb but a 147 is fine for Crusader? Or a 142 is fine for WD?
Thanks for throwing in your thoughts and feelings, but I’m gonna go ahead and use the hard data Ulma is providing us.
To be frank, they claimed 140 was too high for barb some time before it was proven crusader can reach 147-150.
Crus clears are still relatively fresh to trigger a response from them.
Not that I disagree with the commonly agreeded point that their decision was just dumb 
I’m willing to bet they won’t move an inch 'till 3 weeks to give a proper respond. By “give a proper respond”; I mean contacting Nevalistis and giving a nod for a blogpost after a meticulous process of writing one in a collaboration.
If they don’t nerf 'saders they corner themselves and botters will abuse the class. You can forget about “promoting group play” design goal from there now on, everyone will play solo and push further.
I don’t understand this. I kind of buy it if you say by lowering 7 tiers there are less monsters (not sure if this is still true in 130+) so you can’t do AOE as effectively as before.
It’s mathmaticallt 7 tiers. If the number of monsters are the same, and you do the same thing, Rend now deals a -7 tier damage and you should be able to clear a -7 tier GR.
The best WW clear pre-‘buff’ was 130. It should now be 133, or -7 from DP’s 140 on PTR.
GR’s dont really change as you go higher, the mobs just get more damage and more HP. The amount/density/placement of them is random in every GR, from 1 to 150.
There is some other scaling at play. I did 117 in the PTR as my maximum. On live I struggled to do a 102. The lower your Paragon (and effective Para with augments) the worse it performs.
Can’t. That’s coming from a 'sader main. The big takeaway here: Nerfing is bad. Leave AoV alone, re instate 200% Lamentation buff.
There would be a fraction of the complaints if the dev team just did the right thing and re added the multiplier, and perhaps threw another 5k into the monk 6pc. WD/DH need love too, for sure. They weren’t the focus of this patch though so we’ll have to wait.
Need to pick your brain on RF DH sometime. Looks fun to play.
It changes, at least in lower tiers. Open a tier 1 GR and you’ll find the monsters surprisingly few. I don’t really notice the change in 90+ so I’m not sure about higher tiers
I’ll need something more than anecdotal evidence before I believe that.
But we’re talking about reverting a buff. This is different. If nerfing is bad means buffing is good, we should all be buffed and able to kill any monster in one shot.
I understand.
I have a video coming @ GR 133 with paragon 10000, great gear, and maxed out gems dpsing an open map.
I’ll link it in the main thread when it’s uploaded.
You have to put an asinine statement like that in my mouth shows you actually have no real argument. I never said one shotting monsters in 150 should be a thing, just that we should be able to complete one solo.
This is what happens when you put ‘no child left behind’ into implementation. Death of critical thought.
Wasn’t talking to you, lol. FX9 claims that monster counts change according to GR level. That there are more monsters/density as you go higher. That doesn’t sound right to me, and I don’t remember ever hearing that.
I agree, i think blizzard needs to reimplement the rend buffs immediately. The highest tier gr pushers for barb class at the moment are all seismic slam, which is great. But the highest currently is LON seismic slam with nearly all ancients, 130+gems etc., 8k paragon; don’t get me wrong. With those primals, gems, and paragon he has more than deserved a simple 132 (or 134) clear. But rend is nowhere to be seen… Crusader is killing it, all classes truly are killing it, but monks and barb are being left behind, currently, barb had a chance of true power with the lamentation and they failed. And please blizzard, do not get me wrong. I am happy that you buffed the ww set, previously i could hardly clear T16 in a 4 man with 1k para, ancient gear, etc. Or if i did i had to resort to goldwrap and lose a ton of movement speed and qol with fast clears, leaving me, ironically, in the wake of my own dust devils. But, the idea is great for the ww barb, just put lamentation to a 125-150% damage bonus at the least. We need that. We need that to be competitive. We need that to be viable. Barbs are seeing so much playtime because it’s as if the class together was tossed in the trash with ridiculous builds like raekor hota. Don’t get me wrong i love the barb builds because they are fun and different, but with so much rng of packs and where to click, it is immensely hard to push with raekor or charge barb compared to impale, carnevil, chantodo’s, bazooka, lon necro, thorn necro, etc. And we are still left with higher skill cap- lower rewards for our pushing builds. The seismic slam is a nice addition and should serve as a midway point, but the lamentation need to be reverted. It simply has to. We are very gracious that the barb is being considered, but turn it into a reality. Show us you care Blizzard, you’re on the right track and i appreciate it that, but take the final step. Revert the lamentation buff and give it at least 125% rend increase, if not the full 200%. Thank you for trying blizzard, please make it a reality now.
And all this is taking place out of season where half a decade of Paragon levels have been piled up, yes??
I am not sure what paragon has to do with it because independent of it being out of season the class disparity is still way out of whack.
A paragon 4000 crusader right now will smoke any Barbarian clear regardless of the Barb’s paragon. So will a paragon 4000 WD for that matter.
Ive lost faith in the devs. And i usually dontt complain cuz i usually understand
but not this time. vrys nerf was so small I don`t even see a difference. This is actually getting me depressed . Baffles me what there reasoning is about ww.
Then they give you excuses on why, usually a crafty talker who talks circles around you so you dont understand. Reminds me of my last job. You would never get a reasonable explanation
Paragon provides barely a multiplier to an existing damage mechanic.
If one build is twice as strong as the other one in 140-145 range, it will remain as strong in 130-135 range with lower paragon.
Added a video to the main post;
Here’s a GR 133 @ 10k paragon with Lightning Istvan’s, Whirlwind Rend, on an open Battlefields with lots of small trash. I drag around a yellow so you can track its HP. You will quickly see how bad the raw damage is.
Can this clear 133 with godly trash and elites? Maybe, if I spent hundreds of hours fishing for a 1 floor conduit to burn down 7 elites barely clearing 133. Which is exactly what WW Rend could have done in PTR on 143 with the perfect map.