So many no one played ) When people talk about “build diversity” they always mean playable effective builds, not fun builds which can be crazy but too slow, too fragile, etc etc.
So far D4 gameplay is exactly D3 gameplay and it won’t change, so we can expect same build diversity as D3 had back in 2012. At least on start. The only thing Im hoping for is that D4 will avoid terrible CC effects that keep all monsters permanently piled and stunned which is a D3 plague for a long long time. They should be extremely careful with that.
Not that I agree with either, but if it were true that D4 plays like D3, that in no way relates to build diversity. I’m not getting a D3 vibe from any of the characters and this is coming from a hardcore D2 fan. So far I’m mostly impressed. Do I like the machine gun bow up close? No. Do I like all of the cooldowns? Absolutely not, I can see the issues from a mile away. The thing is, not everyone is going to like everything about every character or mechanic. Overall the game looks fun and true to the feel of Diablo.
how many effective builds did d2 have related to overall builds? not that many either i would guess, and i think d4 looks to absolutly nail this. but im with you on the last part, i really hope the meta in d4 wont have supports included.
I didn’t say a thing about D2. I just keep hearing how people talk about “numerous builds”, but it all ends with just 10-15 effective ones (2-3 per character) and that’s it. In all ARPGS. D2 and PoE, though, because of their versatility allow very expensive unique builds for very rich top players (like melee-sorc-bear build in D2).
D’: noooo. I don’t want another DH this is very sad news to me. I did not connect with the DH and I don’t think it goes very well in the Diablo universe. To me it’s more like a sci-fi shooter apocalyptic character than a medievalish warrior. I hate how the DH is so ADHD and it’s all exploding and flashing. The Rogue class needs high mobility, but it doesn’t mean it should have impossible abilities like shooting arrows and caltrops, rolling and slicing enemies in a matter of 1 second. I think it’s not realistic nor fun when everything happens at the same time (and as a trigger to another attack)… There’s no finesse in there in my opinion, it’s just a chaotic tornado. If I were a rogue IRL, I’d want to use both range and melee weapons at the same time, otherwise you’re not as polyvalent a fighter. So I don’t mind the use of a variety of skills switching between range and melee weapons but this needs to be done in sequence, not all at once… try shooting an arrow while throwing knives. I liked the rogue in Ragnarok online, where, for instance, you needed to use stealth or position yourself properly to be able to use the skill Backstab. To me, THAT is finesse…precision of gameplay in order to apply more surgical or devastating strikes. I think the rogue should focus more on that : how to position itself properly for one specific type of attack instead of doing everything at once with high mobility… while having a very tenuous relationship between position/mobility and types of attacks/impacts of such attacks.
I really wanted the rogue back as a class in D4, but the DH direction it’s taking is the most underwhelming path you guys could choose, turning the sweet mostly into bitter. Give me some cool abilities like powerful single target shots, backstab or throat slicing, some kind of capability to become half transparent and slowing monsters ability to follow your movement or to hit you successfully / or walking silently and be able to sneak or ambush monsters, kicks or sweep the legs to drop ennemies, opening their defense and open a window of opportunity for critical strikes (using either bows and arrows). I don’t hate the kind of Multishot skill that was presented (where shadows of the rogue shot in a kind of row), you could expand on that and be able to modify the skills so the rogue does not shoot in a line but circles its enemies and shoot at them, like an ambush of some kind… Then this skill would again favor where you position yourself for a more devastating attack (if it’s how the player wants to develop the skill), the attack being less damaging at the circonference than in the center, where the arrows all converge.
I can’t say the gameplay look was very roguelike to me. Maybe that is the style now I guess, but to me it looks like an edgy zoomer running around hopped up on too many energy drinks on fast-forward. If you want to give the player a machine gun, give them a machine gun, don’t give them a bow whose animation is faster than a machine gun.
The gameplay and animations are too fast to be visceral in my opinion. The first thing I think of when I hear the word “rogue” is not “fields covered with arrows and throwing 200 daggers at once and jumping through monsters tearing them in half like that tired, tired animation of Kerrigan from Starcraft 2”.
These are, of course, just my opinions. I’m very glad to see Diablo 2 coming back, because from what I’ve seen so far, D4 isn’t something I’d be very much interested in playing - too annoying and jarring for any real suspension of disbelief or involvement (for me, at least).
Out of all the Marvel movies, I felt the best fight scene in any of them was the fight between Captain American and the Winter Soldier, just after they got off the highway and Cap came charging in to save Black Widow. THAT felt very cool. CGI people shooting sparkly crap out of their wavy hands - not so much.
If I understood right there are two big differences:
As far as I know, traps are big part of D3 Demon Hunter, while D4 Rogue won’t have traps;
With Demon Hunter, you basically have to go ranged, while Rogue has both ranged and melee build. You can either have her/him be an archer, or a “melee assassin” rogue, like Rogues from World of Warcraft or Valeera from Heroes of the Storm.
Hahahahahahaaha, when I watched “Rogue (new Demon Hunter)” the feeling was the same as when I watched Demon Hunter: It’s not Diablo. I say that the feeling is the same as Diablo 3, the people attack me.
But that’s it, Diablo IV is innovating, you can believe that.
I actually loved the Rogue class in the original Diablo, but I played her very much like a magical archer. I really enjoyed that you could teach them magic in the original. I really enjoyed the Amazon in Diablo II as well. (I know that it won’t happen, but I would love to see a playable Rogue in D2 Resurrected.) Unfortunately, in D3 I didn’t enjoy the Demon Hunter nearly as much, and tended to choose the Wizard. I did enjoy Leah’s similar vibe to the original Rogue though, she definitely felt like a nod to the original in that regard. I am really hoping for a return to form with Diablo IV. Actually I would love it if all of the classes could learn some basic magic from scrolls again. Certainly not in the same avenue as the Sorceress class, but basic elementals and maybe a heal or something? Not sure why I enjoyed that mechanic so much in the original.
Rain of Arrows looks better than the Demon Hunter’s Rain of Vengeance (one reason for that is that the arrows come down in a diagonal path instead of a straight path, and also because there are a lot more arrows).
Rain of Arrows is also better than the Demon Hunter’s Rain of Vengeance because the arrows only rain down from the sky for about 1 second instead of over 5 seconds.
the impact of the Arrows from Rain of Arrows feels really impactful, unlike Rain of Vengeance from Diablo 3.
The fact that Shadow Realm first starts its cooldown until after its effects expire is great and also should be applied on skills like Wrath of the Berserker, Conduit and maybe some Defensive Skills as well, to prevent 100% Uptime from the get-go.
the Smoke Bomb / Blinding Powder is cool.
Combo Points are cool.
I like that Caltrops look like actual Caltrops, unlike in D3. And I also like the backflip mechanic that comes with them.
it is cool that arrows now can bounce from walls
Negative
the Shadow Realm skill that is gained by one of the Specializations should not take away an Active Skill Slot.
I personally don’t like that the Area of Effect of Rain of Arrows always starts directly in front of you, instead of you being able to target an area that is further away from you.
Other Thoughts
What is the resource that the Rogue uses? It looks like it currently works like Mana, but that might be a placeholder.
will the ‘x% Chance that Arrow Pierce through Enemies’ Affix from Diablo 2 make a return? I would like to see that.
I hope there will be Fire Imbue as well. Fire Arrows are just great.
Maybe Molten Arrow from Diablo 3 (a skill that was only shown, but never implemented in D3) can finally make a return!
When the Rogue gets a Multishot skill, the skill should consist of actually arrows like in D2, and not like the D3 Demon Hunter’s Multishot, which is basically just a solid wave/field instead of actual arrows.
Nice to hear that. but please keep it simple and grownded to plausibility. do not take the “over the top” road present in D3…
I like what I am seeing so far, like the physicality during the bowstring tension, the timing and the animation overall.
good pacing and strategic thinking are what this game need
