Maybe, See:
How Diablo 2: Resurrected is calling on the spirit of the original ARPG | PCGamesN
I guess some people look at a few key words and start regurgitating their opinion without even understanding what theyāre responding to. Yet again Iām left wondering if Iām being trolledā¦ I hope so.
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Precisely. Having this view makes you instantly a purist though.
You will see one clip or quote of them vaguely saying there is a possibility for changes ignoring the many many more quotes where they say their intent is the exact opposite.
Its a frustrating conversation.
Hey Drose,
I appreciate your argument approach and clearly you want a good discussion. Now that Iām back on my PC rather than phone, Iāll try this quote system:
Usually remasters are done on new platforms, with new graphics, and slight QoL. You can google pretty much any remaster, including Vicarious Visionsā to see changes are made. There is appeal for remasters, just usually to play on more current platforms with QoL features.
Whatās worth discussing are what kind of changes should VV give us. They already gave us a few. Iām sure 90%+ of pre-orders would want Cow King deaths to not lock you out of creating more cow levels (an unannounced but hopeful change). Then there are the harder ones to think about and debate, such as charm inventory, personal loot, and D2Clone modifications.
This is an aggressive few sentences for sure. Considering everyone who uses that slogan to be naive, a troll, or not credible. I use the phrase and donāt consider myself any of the 3.
Many people are discussing with merit. Youāre setting a blanket statement (lumping) here that all the change topics have no merit. You should engage with those posters directly in their own topics to ask them for merit.
You see it, because frankly, people are tired of discussing on every topic that changes are confirmed, expected, and if you want to play something without changes, you can right now! If you want to play a remaster with changes, thatās what this product is.
Their intent is both.
Blizzard plans at launch to introduce a D2R version that closely resembles the last patch of D2 where players can select on/off options (excluding the shared stash) to make the game more or less like the original (3D graphic, auto-gold-pickup).
They have also said repeatedly that there are open to additional changes based on player feedback, including balance changes.
These are not mutually exclusive. Both are true.
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The ratio of the quotes and what they have announced so far would allow one to speculate the scale of changes they are willing to make.
To use these quotes as rationale for large scale challenges is illogical, but being done often.
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Have you considered the possibility that the initial introductory marketing announcements at Blizzconline were to assure D2 purists that the game would not be another W3R?
Their additional comments are there to let non-D2 purists know there are open to additional changes, since there are well-justified changes that D2 purists might not like by the playerbase more broadly would.
I would not use the frequency of their quotes to divine their intent. Blizzard wants to sell the game to D2 purists, non-purist D2 fans, and new players. Marketing wise you do not say we will only do X and we will not do Y even if the majority wants Y.
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So your response to my logical thought rationale is to say instead that Blizzard is potentially being deceptive and maliciously trying to bait and switch the purist players?
You do not objectively process the leaps of logic you make just to bend the facts to still support your view even if they blatantly reject them. If anything slightly supports something you say you expect everyone else to accept it.
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Wow, I just realized how pointless this thread is.
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I read that entire thing and not once did I even see implied that the devs want to make changes to things such as loot, items or skills.
They did reference perhaps MAYBE changing things at a later date. Ie: after the initial release. But everything i just read pretty much hammers home the fact that they really DO NOT want to change anything to do with items, loot or skills.
Can you be a bit more specific as to where they do say that? Because Iām not seeing it sorry. I DID just work a 12 hour shift so my reading comprehension may not be there. Hehe~
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Chris Lena: Yeah, we made a decision not to do balance changes right now, for the very reason that we want to make sure we deliver the authentic experience. Who knows what might happen in the future with feedback. I know our designers have a list of things they would love to do. So weāll see how that goes going forward.
In addition to this quote, please see the quotes from these 3 reports.
The post is formatted correctly with text boxes with the quotes.
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Because the changes you propose change the game even for those who do not enable them.
You love to bring up shared stash and autogold. You bring it up in almost every post about ābeing OK with toggleable changesā. People who donāt toggle autogold will not be at all affected by those who do. Picking up gold is not a challenge in Diablo II. There is no thrill or empathy between players associated with picking up gold. Please just release that tiresome logic.
Personal loot, on the other hand, even if toggleable, will affect the community. There are technical ways it would affect everyone, and it would separate players into two different games. If players canāt know if the person next to them in the lobby or in their new game has even been playing the same game, the community spirit will be critically wounded.
This element of D2 is totally taken for granted - the base-level empathy players naturally have for each other, without even trying, due to their shared, dynamic, sometimes treacherous, active, sometimes competitive, sometimes cooperative, sometimes incredibly lucky, sometimes disappointing, always thrilling experience of finding loot. If some players - we wonāt even know which players - are not playing the same game, the community social entity would be crippled.
In fact, youāre proposing to create a new social entity, one made from some players plooting and others playing classic. That is precisely why introducing personal loot is too drastic a change - it changes a fundamental element of Diablo II, which is the base-level social relationship. How each player sees each other player even before getting to know them.
It additionally modifies the social dynamic by removing meaning from even basic character comparison ā there is no real comparison if one player is awarded their precious loot via an entirely different mechanism.
It damages the base-level, taken-for-granted social relationship between all Diablo II players, dang nabbit.
And again, enabling or disabling a shared stash and autogold is not changing the fundamental gameplay amongst the playerbase. Please, I donāt want to explain that oneā¦
As for this actual topic, I completely agree with you, Drose! Telling anyone to just go play D2 if they donāt want D2ās systems changed is both inane and entirely missing the point of D2R!
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Gotcha. I did read through that as well. But honestly it really seemed like they were talking about post release. But I suppose I may have been incorrect on that.
Time will tell I suppose.
The main point of the OP is questioning the logic of certain arguments. To me, there is way too much personal insults, hyperbole, mischaracterizations, false dichotomies, strawman, and slippery slip arguments being made by some on all sides of the debate.
That is an in depth post. Overall, I think that you are exaggerating the effects. It would not critically wound the game. Many people think that it would make the game far better.
On reddit r/diablo2 poll with 236 respondents, 5/8 players want to keep FFA loot. 3/8 want personal loot to replace FFA with personal loot. The third category of making these a choice was not offered.
Lets assume this is representative of the populations as a whole (clearly it is a biased sample). Your desire to maintain the status quo, alienates 3/8 of the playerbase who want their social experience without the nonsense that is often associated with FFA multiplayer games.
This is what often drives players to prefer personal loot. Too frequently, public FFA games are characterized by nastiness, toxicity, and the lack of empathy.
Most likely, but there still could be some additional changes before release based on alpha/beta testing.
Or they can give us 2 versions. 1 for the people who want a genuine d2 experience and the other for the mongs.
I get what OP is talking about, because the original D2 is like 90% bot infested. Then the only thing left is Baal/chaos run spammers. Not much of an authentic experience, if we consider bot infestation to be part of the authentic D2, which I suppose nobody intends to do.
There are people who make valid proposals about changes, good ideas, and there are lazy trolls who will just resort to abstract bs.
You will find decent people to talk to, but you have to handle a share of trolls on the way.
What gets me are D3 Troll Fanbois who for years have said this is D3 not D2 go back to D2, And are now just saying Get Out (Meaning get out we want a D2 R more like D3)we donāt care that this is D2 we want what we want and weāll get it and we also want a D4 like D3 as wellš¤¦āāļø
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The people posting in these forums pre-purchased D2R. I do no think many trolls would buy a game just to troll others who bought the same game. The simplest and most likely explanation is that D2 players are passionate about contrasting ideas.
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Some commentary make it appear they view this game more as "The game after Diablo 3 rather than the stand alone remaster as it is
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[quote=āMicroRNA-1507, post:58, topic:29462, full:trueā]
The people posting in these forums pre-purchased D2R. I do no think many trolls would buy a game just to troll others who bought the same game. The simplest and most likely explanation is that D2 players are passionate about contrasting ideas.
[/quote] You donāt know the D3 Trolls