The ratio of the quotes and what they have announced so far would allow one to speculate the scale of changes they are willing to make.
To use these quotes as rationale for large scale challenges is illogical, but being done often.
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Have you considered the possibility that the initial introductory marketing announcements at Blizzconline were to assure D2 purists that the game would not be another W3R?
Their additional comments are there to let non-D2 purists know there are open to additional changes, since there are well-justified changes that D2 purists might not like by the playerbase more broadly would.
I would not use the frequency of their quotes to divine their intent. Blizzard wants to sell the game to D2 purists, non-purist D2 fans, and new players. Marketing wise you do not say we will only do X and we will not do Y even if the majority wants Y.
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So your response to my logical thought rationale is to say instead that Blizzard is potentially being deceptive and maliciously trying to bait and switch the purist players?
You do not objectively process the leaps of logic you make just to bend the facts to still support your view even if they blatantly reject them. If anything slightly supports something you say you expect everyone else to accept it.
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Wow, I just realized how pointless this thread is.
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I read that entire thing and not once did I even see implied that the devs want to make changes to things such as loot, items or skills.
They did reference perhaps MAYBE changing things at a later date. Ie: after the initial release. But everything i just read pretty much hammers home the fact that they really DO NOT want to change anything to do with items, loot or skills.
Can you be a bit more specific as to where they do say that? Because I’m not seeing it sorry. I DID just work a 12 hour shift so my reading comprehension may not be there. Hehe~
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Chris Lena: Yeah, we made a decision not to do balance changes right now, for the very reason that we want to make sure we deliver the authentic experience. Who knows what might happen in the future with feedback. I know our designers have a list of things they would love to do. So we’ll see how that goes going forward.
In addition to this quote, please see the quotes from these 3 reports.
The post is formatted correctly with text boxes with the quotes.
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Because the changes you propose change the game even for those who do not enable them.
You love to bring up shared stash and autogold. You bring it up in almost every post about “being OK with toggleable changes”. People who don’t toggle autogold will not be at all affected by those who do. Picking up gold is not a challenge in Diablo II. There is no thrill or empathy between players associated with picking up gold. Please just release that tiresome logic.
Personal loot, on the other hand, even if toggleable, will affect the community. There are technical ways it would affect everyone, and it would separate players into two different games. If players can’t know if the person next to them in the lobby or in their new game has even been playing the same game, the community spirit will be critically wounded.
This element of D2 is totally taken for granted - the base-level empathy players naturally have for each other, without even trying, due to their shared, dynamic, sometimes treacherous, active, sometimes competitive, sometimes cooperative, sometimes incredibly lucky, sometimes disappointing, always thrilling experience of finding loot. If some players - we won’t even know which players - are not playing the same game, the community social entity would be crippled.
In fact, you’re proposing to create a new social entity, one made from some players plooting and others playing classic. That is precisely why introducing personal loot is too drastic a change - it changes a fundamental element of Diablo II, which is the base-level social relationship. How each player sees each other player even before getting to know them.
It additionally modifies the social dynamic by removing meaning from even basic character comparison – there is no real comparison if one player is awarded their precious loot via an entirely different mechanism.
It damages the base-level, taken-for-granted social relationship between all Diablo II players, dang nabbit.
And again, enabling or disabling a shared stash and autogold is not changing the fundamental gameplay amongst the playerbase. Please, I don’t want to explain that one…
As for this actual topic, I completely agree with you, Drose! Telling anyone to just go play D2 if they don’t want D2’s systems changed is both inane and entirely missing the point of D2R!
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Gotcha. I did read through that as well. But honestly it really seemed like they were talking about post release. But I suppose I may have been incorrect on that.
Time will tell I suppose.
The main point of the OP is questioning the logic of certain arguments. To me, there is way too much personal insults, hyperbole, mischaracterizations, false dichotomies, strawman, and slippery slip arguments being made by some on all sides of the debate.
That is an in depth post. Overall, I think that you are exaggerating the effects. It would not critically wound the game. Many people think that it would make the game far better.
On reddit r/diablo2 poll with 236 respondents, 5/8 players want to keep FFA loot. 3/8 want personal loot to replace FFA with personal loot. The third category of making these a choice was not offered.
Lets assume this is representative of the populations as a whole (clearly it is a biased sample). Your desire to maintain the status quo, alienates 3/8 of the playerbase who want their social experience without the nonsense that is often associated with FFA multiplayer games.
This is what often drives players to prefer personal loot. Too frequently, public FFA games are characterized by nastiness, toxicity, and the lack of empathy.
Most likely, but there still could be some additional changes before release based on alpha/beta testing.
Or they can give us 2 versions. 1 for the people who want a genuine d2 experience and the other for the mongs.
I get what OP is talking about, because the original D2 is like 90% bot infested. Then the only thing left is Baal/chaos run spammers. Not much of an authentic experience, if we consider bot infestation to be part of the authentic D2, which I suppose nobody intends to do.
There are people who make valid proposals about changes, good ideas, and there are lazy trolls who will just resort to abstract bs.
You will find decent people to talk to, but you have to handle a share of trolls on the way.
What gets me are D3 Troll Fanbois who for years have said this is D3 not D2 go back to D2, And are now just saying Get Out (Meaning get out we want a D2 R more like D3)we don’t care that this is D2 we want what we want and we’ll get it and we also want a D4 like D3 as well🤦♂️
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The people posting in these forums pre-purchased D2R. I do no think many trolls would buy a game just to troll others who bought the same game. The simplest and most likely explanation is that D2 players are passionate about contrasting ideas.
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Some commentary make it appear they view this game more as "The game after Diablo 3 rather than the stand alone remaster as it is
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[quote=“MicroRNA-1507, post:58, topic:29462, full:true”]
The people posting in these forums pre-purchased D2R. I do no think many trolls would buy a game just to troll others who bought the same game. The simplest and most likely explanation is that D2 players are passionate about contrasting ideas.
[/quote] You don’t know the D3 Trolls
Thanks to those of you who are keeping it civil and having a conversation that feels like it could lead somewhere constructive, I really do appreciate that.
Remasters can include changes, but not as a rule, and when they do they are very minimal. Generally anything with more than a very subtle set of changes/bug fixes is referred to as a remake, definitive edition, etc (which can still include remastering).
The reason I use these terms is because remastering the graphics and sound as well as moving the game to modern bnet with all the increased security it has to offer already makes D2R obviously different than the original.
So for someone to suggest that because the original exists there’s no reason for someone to want this experience I image they’d have to either be pretty naive or understand on some level that these things are not comparable but make the comment anyway because they know that it will likely elicit an emotional response - a troll. In either case, it makes me question their credibility.
I don’t mean to be aggressive, and if you think it’s an appropriate slogan to continue using, all I ask is that you elaborate. Say it, then back it up with reasoning for why you believe those who think the original doesn’t require change have no need for enhanced graphics and anti-bot measures.
I’m not making a blanket statement that all changes have no merit, I’m simply requesting that when people suggest changes, they focus on the benefits of the changes rather than making their own blanket statement that anyone who disagrees with their proposal can go play the original if they don’t like it.
One thing I feel I should clarify is that this concept applies to both sides.
People who want D2R to remain unchanged need to stop telling people they already have a version with changes - D3/PoE/PoD/mods (whatever the example of choice is).
People who want D2R to include changes need to stop telling people they already have the original so they don’t deserve a remaster.
Everyone on these forums wants a revitalized D2. What bothers me is the ridiculous notion that anything that currently exists is comparable to that - changes or not.
I totally understand and respect wanting to be fair, but these things aren’t entirely equal –
There are many other options for people who want modern systems incorporated into Diablo II.
But for those of us who want to simply play Diablo II with nice graphics, Diablo II is the only option.
So I don’t feel the point bringing up all the alternatives gamers can choose from which utilize modern systems is invalid, because they actually do have several options, D3 and D4 included, and we have only D2R for the D2 experience.
But again, I respect trying to communicate respectfully =P
They didn’t watch the Deep Dive where they explained their rationale behind going forward with the project. They just watched the trailer, and immediately proceeded to fantasize about how the game could be refactored. Now they’re idling on the forums, launching passive-aggressive arguments at old timers of D2 for not positively affirming their suggestions.
At least that’s how I see it.
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Assuming you mean they verbally gave us their rationale for changes and are interested in further changes that also met their rationale.
I.e. I’m ‘paraphrasing’ here - Mules were an annoying workaround so we created shared stash. Clicking gold was annoying and dumb on controller so we did auto pickup.
To me that opens the door to other things like Cow Level (work around to have level 1 alts make the level), and Pindle portal remain open rather than it close after quests and have to run back up the halls.
It doesn’t open the door for personal loot and charm inventory. But that much is subject to debate.
It seems that people still do not understand that this is a remaster and not a remake. There will not be changes to the core of the game, that is what dev team said and the essence of a remaster.
If you dont like the output of the remaster, go and dev your own mod to change the gameplay and whatever you want.
Respect this game.
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