The Future Of Diablo

General Discussion
82

Last time I checked, D3 sales don’t stopped at first week. So I don’t understand why do you think the first week sales should be used as benchmark considering that D3 keep selling in all these years. I hope you are aware that D3 Switch is selling well too.

I am pretty sure that people always bringing up “I am a busy man”, “I have a life” during the middle of a discussion usually just another lifeless dude who trying to compensate hard.

I am glad that you like my post count. Spending my time posting on the game forum that I like is sure feel nice though. I can’t imagine myself posting in the game forum that I disliked though. The thought of posting at least 10 posts in the game forum that I hated is not a very good way of spending my time on it.

83

Because losing player retention is the reason for cancelled development and why developers move to other projects.

Are you still keeping up? Okay great.

Packaging the base game + expansion with the eternal collection and selling it for less than retail is a great way to milk left over content.

The fact that “video games sell” does not indicate success.

Now go ahead and check Blizzard’s stock over the last 6 months.

Well some people don’t have interesting imaginations, but that’s not your fault. It’s just how the world works sometimes.

And to clarify I don’t dislike Diablo. I’ll continue participating in discussions because I decide how to spend my time. Awesome right?

I know reality can be hard to grasp. We applaud your efforts.

I gotta admit. Their collective insanity almost got to me.

Thanks for posting. Our sentiments are very much on par.

84

And? It doesn’t change the fact that D3 still selling and making profits after all these years.

Projects got canceled or developers get moving around is extremely normal in the business world. D3 Ros can be sold well for the first week and it could still get canceled if the upper management wants to capitalize and maximize other more profitable games out there more.

Stop resorting to personal attacks here now. It made you desperate and weak. It has nothing to do with interesting imagination here. We are discussing about video games in the video game forum. No one really cares about how you live yourself in real world, so there is no reason for one to bringing up something trivial like “I got a life” out from nowhere especially in the middle of the discussion.

You don’ dislike Diablo, you just hate Diablo 3. We can see that here. Of course you can continue participating in the discussions here but never forget YOU were the one who brought up the “Post Count” in mocking tone in your previous post. I simply retaliate on the subject you brought up.

85

Profits? LMAO. Okay where is your proof of that?

Hurr derr. Video gameZ get cancelled. EverythingZ normal.

I’m sensing a cultural barrier.

I apologize, but there’s really nothing to discuss here.

Feel free to reread the OP and contribute something of substance.

86

It sold 30 million copies in 2015, and now it is 2020. How is that not a profit? How many arpg out there actually selling for 30 million in a short time? As I said before, even D3 Switch, which released in 2018 sold well for 8 years old game.

Yes. Even the Blizzard said that there were many games that were canceled and never announced behind the development. It is normal.

Of course there is nothing to do discuss because you are just picking a fight with others. Never forget that you quoted my post that NOT even DIRECTED to you in the first place.

87

This are the ones I would like to see:

  • Skill-specific skill trees for each individual skill, each with its own individual skill points, similar to how Last Epoch or Wolcen are doing it:
    https://imgur.com/KBx5akF
    https://imgur.com/bAqZlGj
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOa1c4F0s5o&t=190s

  • An Attribute System with attributes that are universally useful and gear not having attribute requirements. Something like this:
    https://imgur.com/yzDooUH

  • A Passive Skill System that is not a tree, and which has normal passives in which you can put points incrementally and also “keystone” passives which cost several points to unlock at once:
    https://imgur.com/OGsyXRA
    https://imgur.com/6X4aoMI

  • ~50% of a skills total damage coming from the skill itself and the other 50% coming from the equipped weapon, regardless of it being a spell or a physical attack. E.g.:
    https://imgur.com/mfd7fzi
    https://imgur.com/6ZTR6Fp

  • Improved gems and runes, e.g.:
    https://imgur.com/vxNiCtz
    https://imgur.com/ufD0VZB

  • Having 7 active skills and potions with x charges instead of potions having a CD or that can be spammed, e.g.:
    https://imgur.com/tFi8T8Y

  • Interesting and amazing legendaries (these here are just my personal preference):
    https://imgur.com/a/Z5NswCo (it are several images in one album)

  • long lasting loot hunt with loot that gets incrementally better and there being BiS items that take a long, long time to get, but even if you do not have BiS gear, your build should be useful
  • the freedom to create the character/build that I desire to play
  • an immersive atmosphere
  • incrementally improving my character (aka progression)
  • progression also having an end to it, so that there is a final goal in sight
  • the combat being fun, but also neither too slow, nor to fast
  • and probably a lot more things tha currently do not come to my mind
1 Like
88

You’ve got a lot of interesting ideas here that are really worthy of a proper debate in their own thread, rather than being buried behind pages of an argument between two posters. You should consider putting these in a D4 itemization and a D4 skills thread, imo.

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89

Thanks, but I already have done that, both here and on reddit, in many cases even before D4 was announced.

but maybe I can do that again in the neat future.

90

I want to see action-based gameplay, preferably a bit more involved than we saw so far. I wouldn’t mind spells to have more synergy (things like reducing each other cooldowns, stacking up energy meter, or dealing more damage if cast in sequence).

I hope that the gameplay of Diablo 3 will be taken as a base and improved. Unlike some people here, I hope that as few Diablo 2 elements appear in D4 as possible - second part was a great game… 20 years ago. I would not even pick it off the shelf today.

I don’t need any “Role playing” - as in choices and so on. I’m completely fine with a completely linear story.
Only, I would ask Blizzard to hire a competent writer. I know, I know, a man can dream. Just look at Wolcen that manages to deliver a solid feel and solid plot without doing ANYTHING special and without Disney-grade drama.

We really, REALLY need just a solid dark fantasy plot, and not the cartoonish stuff Blizzard is making across all of their franchises for years now.

The only non-linear thing that I would’ve loved, is for each class, or possibly even each class-gender combo to have a separate side-story that you explore during campaign. Think of Divinity 2 - different NPC can be involved in some character’s storyline and offer different dialogue, even though the main narration remains the same.
I think that’d be cool.

But choices? Branching plot? Nah, I don’t think Diablo needs that.

One of my main concerns about D4 keeps being always-multiplayer thing. NOTE: I’m explicitly not asking for offline mode. Keep your online DRM. I want to have Private mode where I only ever see players that I explicitly invited. No random people - not in town, not anywhere.
That said, a mode that turns off all social features (like auction) and only leaves direct trade with people who were there when you picked up an item - is another great thing that I would welcome.

Lastly, I want to see Diablo 4 to be its own game. To not try and DESPERATELY mimic Diablo 2 in all places because of how afraid the devs are of their own fanbase.
Sadly, so far, I see that it’s copying a lot of stuff from D2 in hopes of appeasing the community of 20 years ago.

1 Like
91

I would love this approach to legendary endgame.

Skills that can proc in combination with interesting affixes feels a lot more interesting than a single legendary power.

Finite leveling curve with sensible progression is incredibly important IMO.

Ah yes I agree. In reference to the OP systems that offer depth would also add significantly to immersion.

I’m optimistic about what we’ve seen of DIV. The developers are listening to the community so I appreciate you taking the time to post.

I’ll admit the trolling was mostly for thread bumps and personal entertainment. I would much rather have productive and meaningful discussions.

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92

It does not always has to be procs, but it can also be ‘gain x-y additional lightning damage based on your lightning resistance’ or ‘health potions have +1 maximum charge’ or several of them at once in combination with normal affixes.

:hearts: :hearts: :hearts:

Yes, for me too. Imo leveling to max level, what ever that may level might be, should take approximately as long as it took in D2 to reach level 90.

I would be absolutely okay with an account wide Paragon System where you can already gain Paragon XP even if your char has not reached max level, but only if Paragon gives you access to cosmetics like pets, transmogs, portrait frames, maybe even new music, etc.

Finite Leveling is also important for items. There can should be items (or maybe even runes) that are extremely rare, because it keeps players hunting for them - maybe not as rare as a Zod rune or Tyraels Might, but still very, very rare so that you had to spend a considerable time to farm for it.

Also items should NOT be infinitely upgradeable, but also have an end in sight, which is like a goal you can aim for.

I am optimistic in some aspects, in others not so much.

Combat looks great, but especially in regards to itemization, I have doubts after what I have seen so far. It is like the devs did not really understand what made itemization so good in D2, and instead of improving upon it, they are still going more into a D3 direction.

Itemization is not as bad as in D3, but it still could be much better. I would say from what I have seen so far, itemization in D4 is average or maybe even slightly below average compared to other ARPG’s.

93

I’ll be honest. I really dislike the weapons. Rest are good, especially the Vampiric bracers, but weapons are simply a huge load of WTF

Why would Weapons have to give so much stats ?, they’re even crazy in numbers, like [+7 to Barbarian skills, on a weapon ?] (w.t.f. lol)

Also, WHY does each one of them have a bloody total of 6 sockets on them ?, if Legendaries have 6 sockets what are socketting items gonna have on them, 20 ?

Like w.t.f. ?:stuck_out_tongue:

Are you prefering the game’s name to be a “find a legendary weapon or die trying”, WHY ?

94

They are aproximately having as much affixes on them as some uniques and runewords frm D3 (runewords were basically uniques). Just look at these:
https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/images/f/f9/Exile.jpg

https://itemnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/botdmatpikeeth3jsperf.jpg

https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/images/8/8b/Enigma.png

https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/images/c/c9/Fortitudearmor.png

I am assuming that +7 would not be a too high of a bonus, because the way I imagine it, the power of a skill grows automatically with your character level, so a Level 100 Barbarian would also have Level 100 Skills and +7 to Barbarian skills would just be an increase of 7%.

That is because the innate damage of a skill would grow with the characters level, so al that the +7 to Barbarian Skills would do is to increase the innate damage on offensive attack skills (and also a few other things on other skills like e.e.g WotB):

https://imgur.com/6ZTR6Fp

I have not elaborated on these, so it might be a bit confusing, but trust me, for me it makes sense.

Because in the way I imagine it, all items regardless of rarity that can have sockets should always have the maximum amount of sockets (either by default or by letting them be added by a blacksmith or jeweler. That is all items, not just whites, but also magic, rare and legendary items.

Also, one handed weapon only have 3 sockets (there is one in the album btw), while 2handed weapons have 6 sockets, but when you wear two 1handed weapons or a 1h weapon + a shield you can have 6 sockets in total.

That was my logic behind that.

95

First of all don’t think you’re quite aware how D2 runewords worked like lol, you set the runes and those are the bonuses you get, TOTAL. You didn’t have bonus sockets ON TOP OF that :smiley:

Either way, not a fan of holy scripts. It’s just a lack of imagination IMO, affixes should probably be things of synergies. Don’t quite like how the D2 runeword system worked though is a geniously designed system to give extra value of the “unvaluables”, still a 6 word runeword would give much muuuch more affixes than a 3 word one (which is understandable but not sure if a fan of that :P)

Ok, will try to make a blueprint/affix-generator soon enough (both, for jewelry and weapons) just to show some examples how things could/would work without overwhelming the player with a holy script of 15 stats :stuck_out_tongue:

96

It will be its own and VERY DIFFERENT game even if they ll try to copy everything from D2. Anyway, D2 is a solid game with minimum flaws for ARPG (those are mostly QoL, not core features). This is why it is a golden standard to take up and develop further.

D3 on the other hand is not a golden standard, though D3 devs tried to build their game on D2. Why did this happen is D4 devs home task -)

97

I know how they worked, but as I said earlier (either here or in another thread), one of the things tat D2 could have done better in regards to itemization is that sockets should have been a separate thing from other affixes and every items should have access to the maximum amount of affixes it can have, including legendaries (uniques in D2 could only have one - via the blacksmith - with only a few exceptions).

This is my way of fixing this issue, although, I have to say that I copied that idea from Median XL…

I don’t know what you mean by “scripts” in this context.
Do you refer to predetermined affixes?

I always wanted to make an random item generator, with white, magic, rare and also some legendaries in it, but since I can not code and have no idea how to even do that, I never started that project.

If you don#t mind, can you make the generator available online for downloading so that people also can adjust it?

I would appreciate that. You don’t have to if you don’t want to, but I thought I can ask.

ty

98

I believe the reveal trailer is a good indication of the level of writing we can expect from Blizzard.

Role playing and choices are not limited to story content. I would very much prefer systems that are grounded and offer depth.

Interesting itemization, meaningful crafting, sensible progression, etc are just a few examples.

Not exactly true. I was around during DIII’s beta. Jay Wilson and crew deviated from Diablo philosophy because of their contempt for Blizzard North.

Turns out they didn’t know better and all their choices for Vanilla backfired.

Wilson resigned, Josh took over and Blizzard attempted to rectify those mistakes with Reaper of Souls.

Improving systems and expanding Diablo’s foundation would be a wiser choice for the franchise.

99

Not true. It was a great game 20 years ago.
It can be still played well as a retro game.
But if such game came out today, even with modern graphics - it would be CRAP, and no one would buy it.

Diablo 2 has aged morally A LOT. I understand that you love it. And have fond nostalgia about it. But that doesn’t make it a “Solid game with minimum flaws”. Pretty much every mechanic is flawed, archaic or simply worse than what was done after.

Yes, sadly.
It’s Diablo 3 writing all over again. The only difference is more gore in visuals, but otherwise it’s PEGI-13 children’s stuff again.

Those are empty words.
For example, Diablo 3 skill system has more depth and more variation than Diablo 2 system. But because it didn’t have “talent trees” everyone criticized it as less customizable, which is INSANE.

Not true. I was there too.
They deviated because they wanted to make a new modern game, and saw that Diabo 2 was poorly aged even THEN. Today, it’s even more aged and less fitting to be copied.

Vanilla D3 was designed poorly for several reasons. None of which was a result of deviating from D2. ROS shows very well that their general direction was correct, but the purely numerical execution was off.

Diablo 3 is an objectively better game than Diablo 2. I’ve sunk thousands of hours into D3, and while I also played D2 a lot in my time - it had essentially nothing new to do after you beat Hell Baal. I didn’t play it NEARLY as much.

People compare D2 favorably to D3 out of purely subjective perspective. D2 was a groundbreaking game for its time that broadened the horizons and shifted perspectives. D3 was not. That’s why, in their mind, D2 is better.
But side-by-side, every aspect is worse if you compare them objectively.

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100

Nothing about the trailer remotely resembles DIII writing.

It’s hard to take you serious with a hot take like that.

Are you under the illusion that skill “customization” equals depth?

The developers literally pitched “millions of builds” to the community.

Too bad not every single skill is viable endgame. Also different variations of skills won’t suddenly create synergy and a new build.

Let’s not forget that character power is directly tied to items so good luck customizing your character when class sets dominate endgame.

The impact of a player’s choice dictates depth IMO. Not “moar skillz”.

So let me get this straight.

Character building by allocating stats and skills to loot hunt items by killing monsters and bosses in randomized areas is considered outdated and shouldn’t be copied?

Wait. That sounds like every single isometric ARPG ever.

Hurr derr.

How is it that you can contradict yourself this badly? LMAO.

101

So?
There are still MUCH more builds available than there ever was in D2.
Diablo 3 customization IS deeper. You may like to shout that it’s not out of misplaced urge to belong to the “elite”, but it’s the objective fact that D3 customization and skill/stat system is much deeper than in D2.

You have reduced the description of D2 mechanics so much that it now fits basically every ARPG out there.
Including D3.

This is a strawman fallacy. You have substituted my original statement for a ridiculous strawman and happily beating it, pretending that you’ve made counter-arguments to my poisition, which in reality you didn’t.

Why don’t you decompose it even further and say that I’m calling “playing as a character” - outdated. Or “killing enemies in a game” - outdated.
Indeed, why don’t you?

I don’t know? Because there was no contradiction.

At its time, manufacturing Bronze was a groundbreaking discovery.
Today, discovering a new alloy is NOT groundbreaking. Doesn’t mean that this new alloy isn’t better in every way.
Similarly, D2 was groundbreaking at its time. D3 was not, because there are much more really good games at the time of its release. But that doesn’t mean that D3 is not just BETTER in every way.

The IMPACT of a game’s release doesn’t equal quality when you compare side-by-side with something that released decades after and made good use of all the experience and trial-and-failure of all the predecessors.

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