The difference between the Art Styles of D2, D3 & D4

The problem is the preference or bias carries the inference of superiority, and the years here have seen no shortage of players complaining about the “WoWification” of the game, Disney Villains, completely missing the point of Whimsyshire as a joke, ignoring the existing darkness/brutality within D3, and more. You may not be an egregious offender like others, but I will simply urge a bit more caution in future attempts and to actually take some time pointing out where D2 dropped the ball (and not Remaster) to present a more balanced outlook.

Otherwise, the problem with rendering a sufficient artistic critique is that you can’t just say you don’t like a work or prefer something else. This is something actual art students need to learn quickly in the classroom both to improve themselves and their peers. These processes are intended to accumulate per specific lesson. When I read the thread and see citations of movies or completely unrelated cartoons, those are topical red herrings whose productions don’t at all match with the creation of a video game and its shifting complexities.

Now, you can post a picture of a cathedral and say you like it, that you think it’s gothic, sufficiently medieval, or whatever praise. All that serves as is a point of reference, however, and no artist or team thereof is beholden to replicating such to the letter. And why should they here? Sanctuary is not Earth. When I razz on people who complain D3 isn’t dark enough, it’s because they’re selectively choosing a level of disbelief to settle at that disagrees with the vision of the creators and quite arguably reality itself. There is no reason for a place like the Fields of Misery, as an example, to be needlessly dark and devoid of color. Yet, if we were truly to embrace the cries for darkness people have made here in the past, not only would the sun not exist, but an impenetrable fog would have to hang over the area. In terms of narrative, I’d be compelled to ask why. And that’s where a lot tend to fail because lore/world building is further integral to the presentation of the environment. Nature, itself, is not gothic, as it’s a man-made concept, and the moment the game steps out of a church or whatever architectural high art, the more things like the local biome and culture/wealth of the locals comes into play.

Otherwise, I spoke my earlier concern for D4 because the pursuit of realism in games today carries with it that risk of uncanny valley effect. If Blizzard truly intends to chase that, they have more work cut out for them. Alternatively, they can deviate toward a more stylized look like they did with D3. Unfortunately, this is also where some will jump on the “cartoony” hate wagon without understanding why such a choice is even made.

When I see talk of wondering why elites glow in D3, I’ll simply counter, “Why were special mobs in D2 a different color than their native counterparts?” You might reply that it is to help differentiate them, to affirm their threat. So, where is the mechanical difference between this and D3 making mobs glow? There is none, and the intent is obviously for the player’s benefit. I could infer there are yet more ways to achieve distinction, but the methods D2 and D3 took were very likely the most efficient choices of the time and not to be perceived as some kind of creative sleight.

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I agree somewhat. I do think it should have more darkness in certain areas though. Extra lighting from no light source somewhat nags at me especially if i’m underground.
Also more dark dwelling demons and creatures coming from the darkness would work.

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Artstyle differences are there for combat area “readability”. Diablo 2 hardly needed it so it wasn’t very bright; aura effects and buffs only need some contrast to see in combat and to-hit formulas mean you may get away with minimal loss from some fights. Diablo 3 has dynamic combat, no on-hit formulas but collision checks and scaling damage, where not seeing any threat bright enough simply gets you killed.
You don’t have any duration bar in D2 either, so not seeing any spiraling effect on your feet means you have to retreat and use buffs again. At the other hand Diablo 3 gives you every gauge on display for you to divert attention between the values spread infront of you and gather information from the on-screen combat with a very brief glance.

That bright and high saturated pallete choice for the artstyle caused a few problems in S21 with Trials of Tempest where it created some disturbing effects, nobody can’t deny that, but in the end general readability was more important than obscure seasonal themed effects.
At the case of Diablo 2 it had no ill-effects or impact along the history of it, but game flow has to fit into the data collecting manners of the player so choices have been made that way.

As for Diablo 4, if dynamic combat motives are kept, you should also expect bright readable artwork style. That’s what they’re going with; when you see tons of damage mitigation affixes you can be sure of that as well.
We barely have any idea about combat flow in D4, let along monsters’ synergistic nature. They mentioned keyed dungeons and we have no clue how dense or action packed the fights maybe. You may see art style as exaggerated for a gothic ARPG, which it is but it has a purpose for the long run.

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I get your point @OP but don’t think that you can just take a random picture from another game or art sample and say “this is D4” :smiley:

As for my personal opinion ?, I think it’s fine, well, mostly… What they probably need is give a bit more saturation to the following 3 colours:

1 - Light green
2 - Dark/er purple
3 - Dark-Grey/black

That’s it, the first is to give some “liveliness” to grass fields, and the latter 2 are to enstrengthen contrast with the darkness (kinda give it a creepier/infestation style to creatures that are darker, almost like a creep-spread/Zerg contrast style)

So yes, it’s fine overall, with exception/s of a couple of those “swamp” shots but they don’t even look like a screenshot from the game but an art concept rather

P.S., before playing D4 if you REALLY hate low saturation I suggest you watch a very nice cartoon back from the 70s (Flight of Dragons), a relative masterpiece that I still consider one of my best childhood experience/s overall :slight_smile: :smiley:

Which is totally fair and reasonable.

However, if Blizzard genuinely cared about readability, which they really should, then maybe dont go for absurd amounts of effect spam, as they did in D3. There is no readability in D3 anymore.

Which was talked about specifically in 2019 about how they aren’t doing that in D4. Spell effects are much smaller and toned down in terms of their brightness and effect. Partly due to their new lighting tech. Spells will illuminate the area and that illumination will travel with the light source as it moves. You screen would be a bright flash of white if this were in D3.

It is not the spell effects that are the problem. It is having 162 spell effects going off at the same time, all the time. Too many enemies, too many spells, filling up the screen space.
Whether that will happen in D4 remains to be seen. D3 didnt start out that way, but it sure ended that way.

If anything, having high brightness and recognizable effects, can be, as naksiloth said, a good thing. Helps with readability. Making everything grey and muted, not so much.

Perhaps the first intention was the combat area being readable, but lack of opacity and over saturation of colors made it a mess at the same time. Presentation doesn’t have any significant contrast and this created a very bright palette that created an eye strain when it goes overboard.

They had their worst in Trials of Tempest season with seizure inducing visuals and noises. That should’ve teach them something but I am not sure at all. I’m not the one to lecture them as my education is far from artistry and painting. Reading a few color theories doesn’t make me a scholar.
Do you think that I understand art direction in D3? I actually don’t. When I look at it, all I see are bright blue and orange contrast like someone has an obsession over this from the first year of art school. Not only everything is bright and shiny but contrast is at its minimalistic fashion.

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And none of that appears to be in D4.

Yet… We have no glimpse of keyed dungeons and what intensity of a combat flow they plan on end game content. My hope is that they give some of the intensity of dynamic combat in order to not copy D3 point to point. Because as I said, readability helps keeping the combat smooth but they abused it to no end; it strained the servers and our eyes too.
If they give up some of the combat intensity, at least we’d have different approaches and goals for the end game. I mean other than a yardstick that induces a time trial to clear as much as you can while keeping resources, area damage output and defensive mitigation on balance. D3 has smooth combat flow for sure, but the funneling effect of ascending time trials is a flaw on its own where no other content can surpass or any comparable reward-wise.

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Never got the guts to do that, heard so many badtrip tales…

So i made a mistake, they are not gothic but baroque. But the stained glass is still there.

I appreciate the acknowledgement that I am at least not one of the more “toxic ones”.

I am not really pushy or aggressive when I have discussions with people about whatever issue and remain respectful including towards those that have different opinions and even to those that are actually pushy or toxic.

So thanks for having noticed that.

I never saw it that way and I still don’t do.

For me it is more like having a casual conversation, rather than a need to “own” others or to get some sense of superiority out of it to compensate for something.

I don’t know if that is always necessary.

If you would go through my posting history you could see that I was quite critical of D2 itemization, which - although better than D3’s itemization - also has some fairly deep flaws… in fact so man that I could write one or two pages about the issues that D2’s itemization has.

But I don’t think it is always necessary to point out that D2 also has flaws as it would feel quite forced, inauthentic and would come across as unnatural.

You seem to think that this thread here is me demanding that the D4 team is changing the artstyle, but that is not the case.

I would like it to change, but I am totally aware and respect that it is their project and that they also should let their own ideas, visions and preferences flow into the game. I would never want that they don’t.

If what I show, tell and illustrate changes that more into a direction to what I would prefer, then that is fine, and it is doesn’t it is okay as well…

… and by that same approach it also means that I will not stop to or retrain share my thoughts and feelings in a respectful way about what I am seeing.

I guess that is when I have to bring up the “unrelated comics” again to illustrate the point people are trying to convey.

If the Fields of Misery would be in a style of Happy Tree Friends (or maybe even Whimsydale), the whole are would be very differntly perceived as if they were done in the style of e.g. Death Dealer.

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^^Happy Tree Friends on the left, Death Dealer on the right.

Sure, that is an exaggerated comparison, but when you see the whole thing as a scale rather than a binary, then it gets pretty clear what people are trying to convey when they say that they feel or think the Fields of Misery are not dark enough. It doesn’t come out of nowhere.

I actually liked the somewhat painterly / stylized approach of D3 (not talking about the color scheme and the lighting here), though it went too far with with some/many of the armor and weapon apperances that looked like they are coming out of an anime for teenagers.

Just because something is painterly, does not mean that it can’t be dark.

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… and by the way, that is exactly what D2 was going for as well, as seen in the original D2 cover art and ingame.

But that is not the point.
The point is not they they look different, but the way in which they look different, which makes the game look more like that it is a (flimsy or lighthearted) cartoon directed at teenagers.

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^^Disco Inferno

It is an attempt to illustrate the difference, similar to an analogy.

I do actually thing that the intensity or brightness of the effects is also a problem, and not just the amount of them.
imo it is both of them combined.

To illustrate, I have this video on my Youtube channel of a Seismic Slam Barbarian where I darkened the graphics with Movie Maker, and still the colorful and bright Seismic Slam effect looks out of place.

If the effect of Seismic Slam was more desaturated, like in the D3 gameplay trailer from 2008 when D3 was first revealed, it would blend in much, much better.

So imo both the amount as well as the intensity/brightness of the spell effects are problematic in D3.

It is indeed not something that is for everyone.

It can be quite intense, painful, terrifying and horrific, as it is not a recreational thing, but it is very efficient in what it is supposed to do, which is emotional, psychological, mental and also physical healing.

If you don’t feel that that path is for you, then that is perfectly fine and understandable.

I work with it since about 12 years and had and have great results from it.

Ah, okay, I see.

Yeah, the stained glass can be found in basically all of the medieval periods and their style can be hard to differentiale or hard to define for people who don’t know about them.

I also just started to look into these various architectural styles from the different medieval periods after someone here on the forums mentioned and explained the differences between them (I think the user was Olbat, who made some interesting posts about that topic).

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Ha, I am gonna save that on my PC for later use…
ty

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Yet we have comments from 2019 directly stating they toned down the effects.

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The problem is that original Diablo (and Diablo II) was an attempt to make a sort of a partly horror genre, roguelike videogame. Blizzard North said, that they wanted to see how far they can go/push as far as brutality and stuff goes. Diablo I and Diablo II are pretty tame compared to some real Horror games. Possibly because some features like body parts/animal parts and stuff were removed from the final product.

We get it. We know it was created, sort of, in spite. Problem here, it isn’t a funny joke. Instead of making the game look darker on contrast, it has a completely opposite effect. Makes D3 even more of a cartoonish arpg, than it is. Who thought that adding teddy bears as a random mob type to the Nephalem Rifts was a good idea btw? Fail.

Oh, there is some darkness and brutality in D3, alright. But in order to do that and really emjoy a good D3 look, 3 things have to happen.

  1. Lower the gamma in options. Below the advised level of “barely visible image”. The lower, the better.
  2. Lower the brightness of the display itself too. (monitor/tv settings). Also useful in general, to not put strain on the eyes.
  3. Spam GRs, until you’ll get one, that is dark. And I mean, that it looks pretty much like D2 did. Everything outside of the cirle of light around the character is barely visible. Kind of like a night setting on ACT II maps in Diablo III. Third one is harder to get, because its random. Sometimes you get annoying fog, sometimes you get no effects, rarely you get encompassing darkness.

So in this case, you may really enjoy DIII a lot. Because such a map will look very dark, as a real successor to the Diablo II. And you won’t see too much until you’ll run into some “Rave girls with laser beams” elites anyway.

This is exactly what a human being can, will and must do. And this is exactly what matters. Because 14(30+) million copies are not sold to the other artists, alright? They’re sold to Diablo fans. Who don’t and won’t care. They will just say, that they don’t like it. Period. Nobody cares about the artistic expression and new ways in an established series/IP. A product people actually pay money for too.

Are you even a Diablo fan? Do you know, that at the very least the most notable structures in the franchise (up to D3 anyway) were modelled after the IRL structures? Examples: Diablo I church/cathedral is an actual church. It really does exist in our real world. The Palace of Jherim in Act II of Diablo II is also an actual real world structure, just made smaller in the game itself. I can’t even… nvm.

They were based on the enchantment the mobs had. Some/lots of elites and champions weren’t colored on the lower difficulties, because not all the affixes had a color assigned to them. Just like on the colored items in DII. If an item is colored, you could likely tell at least some of its properties. Like blue/cold is a no brainer, really.

No worries, Blizzard (Irvine) is incapable of doing that. They’re making WoW, HotS and Overwatch. All cartoons with silly, harmless jokes. One has to be unbelieveably naive to expect a true Horror game to be created by Blizzard.

Whimsyshire was a great joke though. Easily on par with cow level.

Adding them to Rifts, yes, not the best idea.

:+1:
Yeah, expecting artistic critique is setting the bar a little high.
It is great when people explain why they dont like stuff, as is happening in this thread, but requiring people to offer a certain level of quality artistic critique would be elitism.
Saying you dont like something, is okay. Saying why, would be more useful of course.

Yeah, also a good point. However, for example, living in Florida (basicly jungle) or California or Carribean is not a representative experience of the nature. Where I live atm, for example again, we get an average of 5 hours of sunlight throughout the year (over 365 days). So, the “nature” for me is pretty grey and flatout depressing in winter. And its on the same level as London, more or less. Plenty of space to go further North to get even less sunlight.
Also, just in general, nights are not of the same darkness level everywhere in the world. Too far to the North you’ll get nights, that are about as dark as a rainy day, i.e. Or sometimes, nights known as the “white nights”. If you were to travel back from the far North, closer to the Equator, you’d get darker nights. The darkest are in the deserts, obviously.

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You don’t think it’s funny because you are the butt of the joke. I’m sure you were/are of of the guy that got upset over a naturally occurring rainbow and the colorful palette. The toxic vitriol from you guys is the reason it happened and it was great. Even the crying from you guys about it, still to this day, is hilarious.

You just don’t understand. The developers intended it to be that way so apparently you aren’t allowed to criticize it, or something like that.

Though I do have to say there is a certain kind of morbidity in running around a realm of sunshine and rainbows exploding unicorns and teddy bears into a shower of blood. There’s a hell of a contrast of tone going on there.

On a broader note if they just give me graphical settings similar to World of Warcraft I’ll be happy enough because then I can fix the desaturation myself like I did in World of Warcraft(not that that game isn’t colourful, but the colours are washed out a bit more compared to what they were in Vanilla).

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