I know the elites with the Juggernaut affix are immune to crowd control effects, and I believe a lot of debuffs including bane of the trapped cannot be applied to them. Hence, it’s why they are so “tough” compared to elites without this affix.
However, do the dmg bonuses from the strongarm knockback effect and Odyssey’s End’s entangling effect apply to them?
Also, I wonder if I’m right. For the same elites with and without the Juggernaut affix, their HP should be the same or similar. But because of the immunity to debuffs, elites with Juggernaut affixes seem to have more effective HP.
Effects or damage bonuses that leverages on a target being under a specific crowd control only benefits off the target when they actually are subjected to said crowd control.
Thus, you’ll notice taking down Juggernaut tends to be longer than what you would need to with the same type of mob with different elite affixes (should your damage rely on CC effects, both soft CCs and hard CCs)
Let’s take a look at the statement for the secondary legendary affix on Strongarm bracers. Enemies hit by knockbacks suffer 20-30% increased dmg for 6 seconds. In that case, if my character (for example, a familiar case is a zBarb) applies knockbacks to them, are these attacks regarded as “successful” knockbacks?
If yes, then they take 20-30% increased damage?
Look at the statement for the secondary legendary bonus in Odyssey’s End, what is meant by “snared”? Does it really mean that the elites with the Jugg. affix won’t get entangled and so the 150% increased dmg won’t apply to them either? Thanks a million.
You’re still not understanding what I have said before.
The effect only takes place if a successful CC has been landed and it applies to all legendary affixes. Thus, any CC that isn’t directly applied (read: have the effects affecting the target) won’t be considered at all. And yes, most of this takes place on the hit where it also applies the CC.
Therefore, for Juggernauts who are immune to ALL CCs basically nullifies all CC-based damage bonuses.
Some items like Strongarms and Cesar’s Memento only require players to “hit” monsters with related CC effect to work, whether the monster is immune CC or not is irrelevant. These items work on even Juggernauts.
On the other hand, items like Bracers of Fury only work while monsters are CC’d.
I understood what you said there, and I believe I didn’t phrase my questions very clearly to make you think I missed your points in your first reply. The things that bother me are actually the definition of the “knockbacks” for Strongarm bracers and “snared” for Odyssey’s End.
For Strongarm bracers, to my understanding, so long as the enemies are hit by the knockbacks (define knockbacks in the case of Juggernaut though), they will take the increased dmg. Well, we know Juggernauts are immune to knockbacks, but I do apply knockbacks to them, so they should take increased damage regardless of the immunity. But I am not quite sure if I’m right there.
For Odyssey’s End, what I see is that the enemies must be snared by entangling shot in order to take 150% increased dmg. Well, “snared by entangling shot” to my understanding is “caught/trapped” by entangling shot. And it seems juggernauts are not trapped by them, and so I failed to apply them to Juggernauts. Thus, they won’t take increased dmg due to entangling shot.
I just wanna say that I like how people hate elemental immunities in Diablo 2 talking crap about it every time but when it comes to Diablo 3 Juggernaut, they’re silent. You may not like immunity systems but this opinion shouldn’t have exceptions for the different installments. Anyway…
They’re only though when you bank all your damage output dependant to crowd control. If your build increases its damage by 50% overall against targets that are under crowd control, then you lost around 33% damage output or more against the Juggernaut depending on your uptime (duration-cooldown rates) of that skill.
Thinking each GR tier increases the monster health by 17% it’s a big difference; but luckily Juggernauts also incur 30% more damage from every other damage source anyway.
You supposed to make use of area damage here and group the Juggernaut elite around other monsters to inflict bursts and collateral damage. You can’t just stack crowd control and dependant debuffs to faceroll content. Juggernaut ensures that game will be dynamic no matter what you pick. If you loaded yourself with crowd control based debuffs then simply skip it; if not stay and struggle for your position while luring the Juggernaut. It’s the only elite affix that makes you think your choices and even if it’s hard to deal with, it make things interesting.
They take 30% more damage from any other damage source but immune to crowd control. In case you think they have more effective health, that’s only the problem of your own build. They already have lower effective health compared to other monsters as long as you know how to position and hit the collateral burst at the right time by luring other monsters around it.
If you want a fighting chance, try to figure out where can you squeeze out more area damage at your equipment and look for ways to incorporate buffs that doesn’t rely on crowd control effects on your skill bar. If you can replace any piece of equipment that can inflict crowd control debuff with something else, this can help your flow too. Otherwise, the whole experience will be punishing.
As of current ongoing Season 25, which has hours left, Essence of Anguish (which wasn’t really the best at all) is widely favored because of its area damage capabilities on kill; as many build is dependent on crowd control they seek this kind of burst against Juggernauts.
While Juggernauts do take 30% more damage to compensate the CC immunity, this is still not enough. The damage buff to CCed enemies in most builds is typically more than that. Bane of the Trapped at mere rank 100 alone is already 45% damage increase, more than the 30% compensation applied to Juggernauts. Most builds use Trapped, there aren’t many that don’t.
Necro in particular suffers against Juggernauts. Basically every necro build uses Krysbin’s Sentence since it can up to quadruble the damage against CCed enemies. There’s nothing can compensate that loss. The Juggernauts are really instaskip for necros.
If it was enough there wouldn’t be any meaning or reason behind Juggernaut’s crowd control immunity; if you can easily deal with Juggernaut due its vulnerabilities regardless of its crowd control immunity, it may as well not exist. Only 30% may not look high, but it stacks quickly when you manage to fight Juggernaut in the vicinity of other monsters for area damage occurances.
As a Monk, Cesar’s Memento puts a huge 800% damage inflict debuff (9 times the damage, compared to Krysbin’s 4 times multiplier) against blinded, frozen or stunned enemies for your Tempest Rush. Juggernaut doesn’t care about it, so Monks deal with the situation via Cyclone Strike for hitting area damage to topple aggro around the Juggernaut.
I haven’t played Necromancer indepth but I guess that you can deal with the problem in a similar way such as equipping Brigg’s Wrath (I know no one cares about this ring) or Johnstone instead of Squirt’s at worst and utilizing your movement speed stacks to maximize Zei’s distance bonus.
As long as you lure other monsters and stop them at their tracks right infront of Juggernaut, you should be able to pierce through to increase Bone Spear damage and still have time to blast the ground with Corpse Explosion and Lance when it counts.
Clearly. Every necro build uses Krysbin’s Sentence, every one. And there is nothing that can come close to the damage buff it provides. Even if a build uses Brigg’s Wrath, Johnstone or any other jewelry, it still uses Krysbin’s too.
Not using Krysbin’s is not an option for necro. Because of that, Juggernauts are instaskip.
Luring other enemies to provide a source of AD can mitigate the issue to a degree but it typically not enough.
No, you’re supposed to skip Juggernaut packs because they give exactly the same amount of progress, but take way, way longer to kill so it’s just not worth it. Stopping to kill a Juggernaut pack means you’re less likely to successfully complete your GR within the timer. Anything that makes you more likely to fail, i.e. stopping to kill them, is not a good tactic.
Skip Juggernauts, unless you have a Conduit pylon active.
Not using Cesar is not an option to any Tempest Rush Monk either. To a lesser extent, you’ll see Bindings of the Lesser Gods where you still lose small amount of damage against Juggernauts because Cyclone Strike is also a crowd control effect.
Any other class you can think of have to lure Juggernauts between crowds and struggle for position while other monsters and perhaps another group of elites rain abilities upon them.
I’m barely at the door of GR120 with this season with 1k plvl, so I’m pretty casual at best. I have no idea how bad it can get in GR130+ as it would be pretty intense and require perfect execution to kill one of them.
You have to pin them down near the Juggernaut with crowd control to increase the damage output. Preferably you have to queue your crowd control casts so you don’t kill the more fragile targets next to Juggernauts in an instant (ie. try not to stack them) to leave yourself with halved health but alone Juggernaut elite.
I’m not talking about duking it out one on one with the Juggernaut in any case; fight them among the crowd always. It won’t negate the fact that Juggernauts are boring fights but also formidable opponents.
If you can melt them along side with 20 other trash monster would you still think that it’s the same amount of progress at the same given time? It’s kinda about execution and perspective. That’s kind of imaginative of me too, I won’t deny.
Some builds are fragile, hence glass cannons, so they can not afford to kite fast small targets to lure and envelope a Juggernaut elite just ahead. When they kill everything, minions of the Juggernaut won’t be enough to burst it down before you kill every one of them. Some builds are tanky enough to leave small targets around alive while keeping aggro and expecting something big ahead with or without a Pylon.
Juggernauts are punishing obstacles, but it doesn’t budge your flow too bad unless you banked everything on crowd control where you lose a huge chunk of damage against them. Again, you can run away from them if that be the case but monster density in the rift will hit you a bit harder.
I can not make a statement about if Juggernauts are fair in terms of progress reward or not (I actually think they deserve one extra progression orb on kill but don’t tell anyone.), but I think this struggle and non-linear flow is what makes the game interesting. These kind of obstacles are, one of the reasons why internet guides never can teach you the best of the best build right outta gate and keep on changing by player experience and opinions.
All this stuff about using Area Damage to counteract the fact that Juggernauts are immune to Crowd Control is irrelevant to the fact that doing so means you’re increasing your likelihood to fail the GR. Skipping them increases your chance of beating the GR.
There’s no point killing a Juggernaut pack if doing so means you fail the GR.
Juggies are a hard pass unless you use simplicity strength or taegok or zeies. Trapped doesn’t work. Strongarms dont work. Kyrsbin doesnt work for necros.
The barb juggernaut passive actually heals you when you are hit by CC. LOL
Juggernauts have less HP (I think it is somewhat about 20-25% less) but for most builds the loss of damage buffs due to the CC immunity is much higher, and no CC also means you can not use CCs to kite them with you obviously.
Why do strongarms not work? Go back to what I asked,
“For Strongarm bracers, to my understanding, so long as the enemies are hit by the knockbacks (define knockbacks in the case of Juggernaut though), they will take the increased dmg. Well, we know Juggernauts are immune to knockbacks, but I do apply knockbacks to them, so they should take increased damage regardless of the immunity. But I am not quite sure if I’m right there.”
As a result, any “knockback attempt” when the monster is sitting at 65% CCR or above will not trigger additional CCR because it will not be displaced. Note that an attempted knockback (a displacement effect on a monster with too much resistance or an immune target like a Rift Guardian or a Juggernaut Rare Elite) triggers the damage buff from Strongarm Bracers.
So if I spam Deadly Reach or Fists of Thunder as a Monk against Juggernaut elites, as long as knockback occurs they will take more damage from Strongarm? Worths a shot if it can replace WotHF- Assimilation but I doubt about sustainability of this. I built a character at previous season reliant on this Strongarm debuff, and never paid attention to it but I guess I can give that a try later on when this season finally ends.
Strongarm (Enemies hit by knockbacks suffer 20% - 30% more damage for 6 seconds) effects on Jugg (cc-immune):
a. not works - Juggs cannot be displaced (aka knockback)
b. works - but are 'HIT by your knockback skill (button) of the hero toon, received 20-30% more damage for 6s.