Tal Rasha Set DEAD!

[Steve-6205]

(post deleted by author)

[MasterJay-1651]

@Ronin010-1772

Yeah I’m not gonna take your word for it, because you do not know how to inspect leaderboards (LBs). Before the LB wipe, Tal Meteor did a 143 with 11.4k para, above my Tal Orb 142 clear at 8.3k, so the builds are roughly within 1-2 tiers of each other. The same guy has now done a 140 with Tal Meteor, and under 10 minutes, mind you. This alone invalidates your claim that:

Didn’t see it before the wipe and was filtering DMO, didn’t think someone would actually push Tal6 so I see now fair enough but not really a fair comparison. You’re okay with that having to be not only 2pc from Tal’s but Reverse Archon (300-400%) to even catch Orb/Twister? Just by that, still behind sorry.

A clear is a clear though cannot deny the facts in a solo environment, however in a group environment Meteor would never get used over Orb/Twister because with zDps you could just Reverse Archon to do 4x your damage output vs Meteor and even worse in season with the Sanctified Arcane Orb power so all things considered and set/skill comparisons all things being equal then maybe this statement is more accurate:

@Ronin010-1772

Therefore what meteor needs is a playstyle change, and not a significant power buff.

[Ronin010-1772]

@MasterJay-1651

Didn’t see it before the wipe and was filtering DMO, didn’t think someone would actually push Tal6 so I see now fair enough but not really a fair comparison. You’re okay with that having to be not only 2pc from Tal’s but Reverse Archon (300-400%) to even catch Orb/Twister? Just by that, still behind sorry.

Firstly a quibble: it’s not Reverse Archon because you’re casting meteors, killing monsters, and gaining archon stacks while IN archon. Technicalities aside, you seem to think that archon acts a ‘clutch’ for meteor, when in fact it’s a very natural choice given the free belt and armor cube slots, which lets you fit in Fazula/Swami. The resulting build is no less meteor-centric than a non-archon version.

@MasterJay-1651

A clear is a clear though cannot deny the facts in a solo environment, however in a group environment Meteor would never get used over Orb/Twister

Guess what, Orb/Twister wouldn’t get used for group meta either, given the many superior options provided by other classes, so this point is moot.

As far as a playstyle change is concerned, here are my suggestions:

• Remove Smoldering Core and the stacking effect entirely. Keep the lure effect, but move it to a 1H Wand like Blackhand Key. Add a direct damage buff to this wand, like that for Grand Vizier

• Remove AD procs from Tal 2piece, forcing manually cast meteors

The first point ensures that Meteor deals its full damage immediately, giving it much better trash-killing potential. Being able to wield a 1-Hander also allows the Tal offhand to be equipped, freeing up another armor slot (such as Squirts for Tal ammy), and granting an additional 25% additive meteor damage.

The second point eschews the autocast playstyle in a push setting. For farming, autocast meteors from 2piece will make do.

[Sardaukar-2915]

@Ronin010-1772

Firstly a quibble: it’s not Reverse Archon because you’re casting meteors, killing monsters, and gaining archon stacks while IN archon. Technicalities aside, you seem to think that archon acts a ‘clutch’ for meteor, when in fact it’s a very natural choice given the free belt and armor cube slots, which lets you fit in Fazula/Swami. The resulting build is no less meteor-centric than a non-archon version.

If you don’t care about the proces, but only about the result then yeah, a build that doesn’t even have the meteor skill on the bar can be called ‘meteor-centric’.

To me it speaks of bad design.

Want us to use TR and Meteors? Fine by me, but for Cain’s sake, make that damn set actually support the skill other then those autocast meteors. And do something about the fact that the only 2 weapons we have that support Meteor are both 2-handers.

[MasterJay-1651]

@Ronin010-1772

Firstly a quibble: it’s not Reverse Archon because you’re casting meteors, killing monsters, and gaining archon stacks while IN archon. Technicalities aside, you seem to think that archon acts a ‘clutch’ for meteor, when in fact it’s a very natural choice given the free belt and armor cube slots, which lets you fit in Fazula/Swami. The resulting build is no less meteor-centric than a non-archon version.

Yes sorry technically correct not Reverse but still using the 300-400% damage mod, I don’t think that’s as free choice as you’re suggesting.

@Ronin010-1772

Guess what, Orb/Twister wouldn’t get used for group meta either, given the many superior options provided by other classes, so this point is moot.

As far as a playstyle change is concerned, here are my suggestions:

• Remove Smoldering Core and the stacking effect entirely. Keep the lure effect, but move it to a 1H Wand like Blackhand Key. Add a direct damage buff to this wand, like that for Grand Vizier
• Remove AD procs from Tal 2piece, forcing manually cast meteors

The first point ensures that Meteor deals its full damage immediately, giving it much better trash-killing potential. Being able to wield a 1-Hander also allows the Tal offhand to be equipped, freeing up another armor slot (such as Squirts for Tal ammy), and granting an additional 25% additive meteor damage.

Haha fair enough right none of those would be in meta group anyway, which is my entire grip here for buffs! But I see your perspective, regardless of what skills are being used the builds are close for solo pushing NS so I’ll eat crow on that.

And hey I like those suggestions, they make sense. I guess in the beginning of PTR I wasn’t taking the 2 Two-handers for Meteor damage seriously…it is a huge build hinderance especially considering Tal Rasha source yes.

[Astig-1979]

Tal Rasha turned evil (back in D2)… that was why he is not getting a buff.

[l3ft0ne-2712]

That’s an elegant solution! that’s what I always said I want to farm with DMO EB, I even proposed an OID buff for EB, and then they simply deleted EB from DMO lmao.

[Mugsy-6765]

@l3ft0ne-2712

then they simply deleted EB from DMO

IKR!

EB is quite fiddly to play with Tals and (to my knowledge) doesn’t have the damage to be competitive when used with Tals.

It makes sense to keep it on DMO especially with the QoL changes in this patch. We can have Primus cubed and just need to jump around and let EB wreck havoc to what ever enters our permanent bubble.

[Ronin010-1772]

@Sardaukar-2915

If you don’t care about the proces, but only about the result then yeah, a build that doesn’t even have the meteor skill on the bar can be called ‘meteor-centric’.

Want us to use TR and Meteors? Fine by me, but for Cain’s sake, make that damn set actually support the skill other then those autocast meteors.

Funny that you speak of process vs result, when I’m one of those that strongly prioritizes the former. You’d have realized that if you cared to read down a bit further:

@Ronin010-1772

• Remove AD procs from Tal 2piece, forcing manually cast meteors

the whole point of which is to force you to include meteors on your skill bar and manual cast them. The inclusion of archon has almost nothing to do with this.

[Sinewave-1120]

@Ronin010-1772

the whole point of which is to force you to include meteors on your skill bar and manual cast them. The inclusion of archon has almost nothing to do with this.

If you’re suggesting to manually cast meteor while using tal rasha whats the point? Might as well just use an LoD build. The whole point of the tal rasha set is the auto meteor spam. If those procs are gone then manually casting just leaves you with empty AP doing zero dmg

[TinneOnnMuin-1187]

@l3ft0ne-2712

and then they simply deleted EB from DMO lmao.

I think it’s because the new 2p bubble mechanic requires a targeted skill. EB wouldn’t really work with the updated 2p since it’s not a targeted skill. Then they updated the 6p to have all the same skills as the 2p.

Seems a bit dumb to me, because you could still cast manual bubbles for EB. Or just run Primus. Wouldn’t have hurt anything to have left it on the 6p even though it’s not on the 2p.

But I think that was the thought process that went into that change.

[Ronin010-1772]

@Sinewave-1120

if you’re suggesting to manually cast meteor while using tal rasha whats the point? Might as well just use an LoD build. The whole point of the tal rasha set is the auto meteor spam.

In general LoD should be a tankier but less-DPS alternative to 6piece sets. The issue is that Tal didn’t get a damage buff so is lagging behind LoD even the DPS department. It should be changed so that the point of using Tal over LoD is to do more damage (not to mention the possibility of combining with Aughilds, Crimson, or Guardian sets).

@Sinewave-1120

If those procs are gone then manually casting just leaves you with empty AP doing zero dmg

If you’ve actually played a classic meteor build like Starpact, you’ll know that your AP will regenerate quickly enough for you to manual meteor again for your next CoE cycle. If you’re not playing CoE/rotation-based, running a primary skill with APoC on offhand will solve any AP issues.

[Sinewave-1120]

@Ronin010-1772

If you’ve actually played a classic meteor build like Starpact, you’ll know that your AP will regenerate quickly enough for you to manual meteor again for your next CoE cycle. If you’re not playing CoE/rotation-based, running a primary skill with APoC on offhand will solve any AP issues.

no…just…no.
There’s a reason people dont run a manually casted meteor build.

[Ronin010-1772]

Care to elaborate? There are videos of people (including myself) playing manually cast meteors, objectively proving you wrong.

[Sinewave-1120]

So you looked around youtube to find people who made a meteor build and all the sudden youre validated. You know, if you look long enough on youtube you can find a video for anything. Next youll tell me that Bigfoot and the loch ness monster are real because you saw it on youtube.

My point was that its inane to run a manual meteor build when tal rasha does it for you. Use some critical thinking instead of trying to prove people wrong.

[NiQi-3620]

Now tal2 is correct。Now tal2 is correct. Mobility, tenacity and damage need to be improved. But they won’t do it again. Because they are afraid that someone will match Archon and manual arcane meteorites to play unreasonable high damage。

[Ronin010-1772]

@Sinewave-1120

So you looked around youtube to find people who made a meteor build and all the sudden youre validated. You know, if you look long enough on youtube you can find a video for anything. Next youll tell me that Bigfoot and the loch ness monster are real because you saw it on youtube.

Making an analogy between a real, unfalsifiable activity (GR pushing) and Bigfoot/Loch Ness. Yep that’s what I call:

@Sinewave-1120

critical thinking

right there

@Sinewave-1120

My point was that its inane to run a manual meteor build when tal rasha does it for you.

And my point is that Tal Rasha shouldn’t autocast meteors for you, because manual meteors have worked well in the past. How dense can you really be? Anyway I have no more words for you. It is a waste of time to try to convince a dolt that lacks the brain cells to absorb even a sliver of someone else’s argument.

[Sinewave-1120]

Lol look at you getting triggered. The funny part is you think you have the perfect solution when all you have is a flaccid opinion. Thank god people like you dont actually work on this game.

[NiQi-3620]

Don’t be angry, just discuss the game, and please don’t attack others. If you insist on manual meteorite, do you mean meteorite rain? Now the passive meteorite is really smooth. It just pays a lot of operations and does not get the tenacity and damage it deserves. You can try to build a design of skills and equipment. Let’s see how it works.40 energy a meteorite, 50% also has 20, I really don’t know how you want to manually meteorite to hit damage.

[Ronin010-1772]

@NiQi-3620

If you insist on manual meteorite, do you mean meteorite rain?

No I’m mainly referring to Starpact.