Then you missed a lot.
As I said, Barbs have had to put up with a lot of garbage, finally looked like they might be competitive, then had a lot of people with a lot of deliberate misinformation, or just not understanding what they were talking about, screaming for nerfs.
The situation you arrived in has been boiling over for some time now.
Very simple. I could do a 90 with my fresh DH and a 110 with my fresh Barb with same quality of gear, same gem level and paragon. In the same time.
Simple! Don’t sell yourself short.
Yours is the most comprehensive, fact fill, arithmetically based argument in all the forums known to man, ever.
In case you missed the sarcasm, everything I said is the furthest thing from the truth. “OP”, isn’t base on your experience.
If you desire knowledge, go read what Free, Prokahn, Rage… and many others have to say on the matter.
So I was off, going by d3progress…but I pulled his battletag in d3planner…
5573 as of today…and it was S18 clear so…
So then patator did 145 NS on his wiz in sub 14min
and then…Talla showing this clear
Paragon: 3084
| [world] | 19225 |
|---|---|
| [Europe] | 6649 |
Solo GRift: 144 (14m 19.983s)
|[world]|2|([wizard]|2
| — | — | — |
|[Europe]|2|([wizard] 2
but Barb needs a nerf…(and skip the “well he did with Chants which is being nerfed” replies)
You don’t need to make a peace offer or change your opinions. If you felt it was op, then have that opinion. But you need to understand the history behind Barbarians and what they have gone through.
Being a zdps, having builds that is inferior to others, the only one that can reach high is a perfect geared ww ( takes a looooooong time to get ) and it’s still below other builds or Raekor, which needs a lot of practice and buggy gameplay to perform with.
I want balance for all classes, but it’s ridicolous what they are doing
Ok ok ok.
All Prokhan did was the same what I did. He took GR clear numbers and compared them. Instead of relying on old numbers from patch 2.6.6 I took numbers from patch 2.6.7. I just didn’t put them into nice graphics because PTR is over.
And patch 2.6.7 is what we are talking about.
But I will just stop replying to you and your kind. You are just blinded by hatred and all you can do is insulting people. You really should see a doctor. This is not healthy.
Have a nice live
See you in patch 2.6.7!
Alright boyz.
I wanted to shed some light on this topic because people are in this thread treating the PTR leaderboards or even this thread as a single source of truth. While it’s easy to guess-timate how much a damage buff/nerf could directly translate to a GR increase/decrease, it’s important not to tunnel vision exactly on a nerf.
Using the PTR leaderboard as a source to determine strength can be difficult since Paragon isn’t capped, and people aren’t necessarily going to push to their limit since progress isn’t saved. And the seasonal leaderboard, especially this PTR, is basically useless since the killstreak theme was insanely OP.
So lets examine what we do know. This season, which isn’t even over yet, WW is currently in the TOP 10 on the leaderboard with a 126 in 14m33s. Season 17(Without Triune) WW was once again in the top 10 with a GR120 in 14m38s… This is with WW as it is ON LIVE. No rend buffs, no ambo’s pride, just old fashion Wastes with bul-kathos. This is what I mean when I say 1% of people will absolutely wreck with the new WW changes. So to me, yes, lamentation was a small nerf to the overall CRAZY BUFF that WW received on PTR.
I get that this nerf kills a lot of possibilities for say group XP farming with barbs, EZ solo speedfarming High GRs. And I’d love for them to figure out a way to nerf the push setup of WW without nerfing the fun and power of the mid-range. But at the end of the day, if they didn’t nerf it. We’d be in the same boat we are with VYR being insane, with Necro Thorns being insane. BOTH of which are getting nerfed this next season.
What I’m suggesting is that you should perhaps examine the greater picture of balance rather than freaking out about a 7 GR nerf on a build who’s full potential probably wasn’t even seen.
Barb was my main before Necro and I want it buffed like the rest of you but attacking my knowledge of Diablo 3 or me as a person is appalling. The Barb forums have always been considered a toxic place full of elitist “know it alls” and it’s unfortunate that things seemingly haven’t changed. I wish you boyz the best.
You cant compare previous seasons ww build with next seasons rend because the main damage is coming from 2 different skills.
Fluffy-
There are a lot of folks that owe you an apology here, you were just one of many bystanders caught up in the barb community’s collective temper tantrum this past week.
Im hoping they don’t proceed with a nerf like everyone else, but the “agree with us or you’re trash” mentality that has been adopted is really a shame. Hoping we get some patch notes soon so all the whining comes to an end.
It was rather astounding. Behavior from players I expected better from, really. Wizards got nerfed, and the attitude was more or less "We were OP, I think it's fair. or "Huh, Starpact was WAY worse." to Barbarian's collective rage.
I mean, If it went Live with Rend at 200%, , Barbarians might have had the best speed runs, guaranteed spot in the meta, and higher solo push. I don't even think pre-nerf Wizards could really claim all of that, except if you were NS really high paragon.
Hi Fluffy. Want to respond to some of your points.
I respectfully disagree. Barbs haven’t gotten much love in a long, long time. This reaction is very understandable given their state before and after 2.6.6.
The 2.6.7 PTR elevated our WW build 10 GRs and changed it from a WW-centric build to a Rend-centric build.
Removing the multiplier on Lamentation is not a “small nerf,” no matter how you try to contextualize it, because it will translate into a 7 GR nerf, especially for those who don’t have 5-10k Paragon and play non-Season. For those folk, the power potential of the build goes up a measly 3 GR tiers, which still places us 7 tiers behind the new solo ceiling of 140.
I agree that using the PTR Seasonal leaderboard is worthless because the killstreak bonuses were insanely OP, but calling the removal of a 3x multiplier a “small nerf” to any build is ludicrous. You can caluculate its worth in terms of damage vs the scaling HP of mobs in a GR environment, and without that separate multiplier, we are barely buffed.
I’m not sure what this comparison is meant to show us. That clear is from So Lucky, one of the best WW players out there, and owes a lot to the Triune and Flavor of Time. It’s a great clear for a WW Barb, but it wouldn’t even place in the top 10 for any other class except Monk, and even then, just barely.
You keep saying that top tier players will soar with a 200% Lamentation buff, and I’m inclined to agree. But my follow up is: so what?
So what if they do?
And what about everyone else?
Correct me if I’m wrong, but your approach seems to be: “Nerf Lamentation so top 1% Barbs will be in line with other top 1% class clears.”
But removing a 3x multiplier is not going to do that. It will, in fact, prevent us from doing that, and the evidence is in non-Season clears where most other classes are already clearing 140+. I mean, just look at the new recent 142 clears from DH and WD, and they’re not getting nerfed. With the killstreak bonuses coming next Season, their Seasonal clears are going to be even higher.
My point is that removing the 3x multiplier from Lamentation is not a small nerf. A small nerf is to lower it to 150%, which would be a 2.5-3 tier nerf, but I’m not in favor of that, either.
I’ve posted several times that personal attacks aimed at you are not okay, and I’ve asked folk to cease and desist. That said, I’m going to be brutally honest: You don’t know the game as well as we do. A year or so ago, you came into the Barb forum, started posting “builds” and discussing game mechanics with us, and it quickly became apparent that you were just repeating what we had long ago set in stone. We corrected you, we engaged with you, and when you failed to take constructive criticism, we showed you the door.
That is not elitism. That is standing firm for the work your community has done and not allowing others to either take credit for it or to spread misinformation.
We have never been a community of elitists, and I think the number of new players and experts that join our endeavors, much less the traffic the Barb forum gets, is indicative of our inclusive, but no-nonsense approach.
I get it. You don’t like how you were treated. I’m sorry your experience with the community didn’t go as you would have liked, but I think many in the community felt–and I’m included–that you came more to preach, not engage, with established experts.
So, no, we’re not toxic, and we’re not elitists. We don’t eject someone of give folks a hard time unless they ask for it, and even then, I’m of the opinion that show quite a bit of restraint and patience. We are a community of experts, but we also learn from others if the information is correct. In fact, most of what I know about Necro I learned from you! You’re definitely an expert in the class, and you understand its nuances far better than I. But the narrative that we’re “toxic” or “elitist” just isn’t true.
I can see I’m not going to change anyone’s opinion here.
I posted a build to the barb forums ages ago, I was accused of stealing the build and told that I should’ve “consulted the barbarian forums” before posting the video.
Mate, if you don’t see that as elitism, I don’t want to tell you.
I mean, -7 over 150 GR is a “small” nerf alright!!!
=)) =))
It’s sad when somebody proves your calcullations or feelings are exagerrated and your ego won’t allow to admit it.
And it’s also lol taking sentences out of context.
I know it’s useless to write this, you are young and you have your truth.
Okay, but can you look at it from an objective point of view then.
Take a look every time anyone post anything that could be considered as a minor criticism against the barb, any time anyone was trying to make a decent structured point, something that might not even be a nerf, but rather a change in playstyle.
Now without replying, watch as the barb community will swarm this person in a quite disgusting manner, almost to the point of group bullying. When people were asking for a minor nerf on lamentation they were called trolls, effectively trying to shut down any meaningful conversation, any talk about where and what to improve. You actively tell people to leave your forum, that they should not be talking about stuff they don’t know, here’s the thing, non of you evolve as people if you make that barb club so exclusive, so aggressive against everyone who don’t play along to the barb flute.
I don’t know man, it might be because a difference in culture, but I can’t really see much honor, dignity or respect from the barb community. A community priding themselves on being the greatest, also being their own worst part.
I’ll say this, I enjoy playing barb, and I’ll continue to do so, but I will not be part of the barb community, it has turned into something dark, corrupt, and generally unpleasant. I will show respect to the posters who act nice, respectful and polite.
Rashiel out…
You think you can speak up and trash talk people while “you need to take my opinion as yours now otherwise you are no good”.
And talk about op. Wizard and Necro have been for several seasons. When Barbarian finally shines you then say “well, Wizard and Necro are getting a nerf so it’s a small one and it’s just fine and dandy”.
I miss ignore function. Must be a mental thing from now on… Holy hell.
Asking for a minor nerf to a class that has been the worst for 16 season straight and you wonder why people get mad? Do you even listen to yourself?
It’s like giving a homeless person a sandwich and something to drink just to take it away from him after few minutes saying he won’t need it anyway…
I wonder how would you feel if someone took something from you that you love the most and you could do nothing to prevent it…
If you promise something like devs did, by saying that they “heard the barbs community war cry” than you should keep the promise, not just give the worst DPS class in the game scraps, but actually give them a chance to shine, without excuses that Wiz and Necro got nerfed, so barbs has to be nerfed too, so you won’t hurt poor Wizards and Necros feelings who reigned for how many years already despite all nerfs as best DPS in game?!
If anyone ask for nerfs to the worst class in game, especially a nerf that will make this class the second worst or still worst, than don’t expect players to who enjoy playing this class to welcome it with a grin on their face…
If after years of being neglected you get a chance to compete with the TOP3 DPS classes in game, just to have it taken away from you, because someone is too afraid to loose his spot in META as best DPS, than don’t expect people to not get mad…
Same thing would happen if you gave monks a build that allow them to clear a GR140-142 in PTR, just to take it away from them, because Monks and Barbs can’t be as strong as Wizards and Necros right?… 
No, mah dude. That’s not what happened.
What happened was, you appeared on the Barb forums and started dropping “guides” like this one: Diablo 3 Forums
4 posts down, S4 calls you out for blatantly copy-pasting Dakkon’s build. But more importantly, you posted it in a forum where there already existed a complete MOTE EQ guide that was also stickied.
Here’s you getting called out for that: Diablo 3 Forums
And here’s Dakkon’s original build: Diablo 3 Forums
Originally, he never wrote the build out in the forums except in fragments scattered through various threads, but we had already identified it: Diablo 3 Forums
The year before, you tried it with this one: Diablo 3 Forums
Before that, you did the same thing with Dakkon’s “Trillions” Physical R6 Slam build, and Arch (Ulma), a Barb expert and one of the best players on the NA server, called you out for it.
So I tried to mediate and find some middle ground. Here’s what I posted:
I haven’t seen you post before, so I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. But the friction you are encountering (and will likely continue to encounter) in this forum stems from the fact that this is the place for Barb info. I don’t mean that as a proclamation of loyalty or e-peen; between the math heads, the creative types, and the sheer amount of testing and build refinement that happens on this forum, not to mention the developer outreach that starts here, there’s no better source for Barb info–in fact, there may be no better place for D3 info, period.
In comparison, Diablofans doesn’t hold up. If you’re using that site as the hub for your Diablo knowledge, you’re way behind the curve.
Then there’s the way this forum reacts to people who seem to be, for lack of a better term, cashing in on a Twitch account or YT channel. Most content makers are trying to reach the broadest possible audience, and that’s the most casual demographic of a given game. This forum, on the hand, caters to the experienced player, and tries its best to route casual or new players into specific threads for help. So, what you’re showing us is nothing new, and the reaction you’re likely to get is some variation on, So what?
Again, not trying to start an argument. My goal is to establish how this forum tends to work, what it does best, and explain what kind of reaction you’re likely to get, particularly from experienced players.
That was our first conversation. Things only went downhill from there, because you kept at it–plugging away for your YT videos and guides in a forum where the best, most complete guides were already written and established.
For the Barb community, the bottom line was that you kept showing up to post builds we already knew about, builds we had already codified in guides, builds we helped players with each and every day, and builds we were routinely topping the leaderboards with.
To be clear: You were copy-pasting builds created by others, then directing people to your videos and “guides,” and you were doing it in the forum that had written the best, most complete guides out there.
Talk about changing opinions? Brother, if you don’t see how that’s going to generate some friction, we are lost.
By the end, you started pulling stuff like this: Diablo 3 Forums
I dunno, man. I love your Necro videos. I was really happy when you covered our Buff Proposal. I think it’s good to have folks who are passionate about the game, and I even tune into your podcast now and then. I wish you much success, but I don’t think the approach you took with regards to the Barb community here has been the best. I’d like to see that rift healed, but calling us elitist isn’t getting the job done.
It’s not elitism to know your community is producing the best, most complete guides out there, to know your community does everything it can to help new and casual players and tailor content to the best, most hardcore crowd. It’s not elitism when your forum produces more analysis of game mechanics than any other, and when folks in the know routinely call the Barb community home, it’s not elitism to know why.
The Barbarian forums aren’t elitist in my opinion. There’s just a lot of players there who understand D3 math and mechanics, and they get annoyed when players post false and misleading information. They get overzealous and defensive when bad information gets introduced. Things like claiming a 7 GR nerf is “small” would be an example.
I’ve seen so many of the Barbarian forum regulars answer questions from new players in those forums. There’s so many guides and resources there. The Barbarian community is passionate and they try to help a lot of players.