Streamer: "Small Nerf"

You think you can speak up and trash talk people while “you need to take my opinion as yours now otherwise you are no good”.
And talk about op. Wizard and Necro have been for several seasons. When Barbarian finally shines you then say “well, Wizard and Necro are getting a nerf so it’s a small one and it’s just fine and dandy”.

I miss ignore function. Must be a mental thing from now on… Holy hell.

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Asking for a minor nerf to a class that has been the worst for 16 season straight and you wonder why people get mad? Do you even listen to yourself?

It’s like giving a homeless person a sandwich and something to drink just to take it away from him after few minutes saying he won’t need it anyway…

I wonder how would you feel if someone took something from you that you love the most and you could do nothing to prevent it…

If you promise something like devs did, by saying that they “heard the barbs community war cry” than you should keep the promise, not just give the worst DPS class in the game scraps, but actually give them a chance to shine, without excuses that Wiz and Necro got nerfed, so barbs has to be nerfed too, so you won’t hurt poor Wizards and Necros feelings who reigned for how many years already despite all nerfs as best DPS in game?!

If anyone ask for nerfs to the worst class in game, especially a nerf that will make this class the second worst or still worst, than don’t expect players to who enjoy playing this class to welcome it with a grin on their face…

If after years of being neglected you get a chance to compete with the TOP3 DPS classes in game, just to have it taken away from you, because someone is too afraid to loose his spot in META as best DPS, than don’t expect people to not get mad…

Same thing would happen if you gave monks a build that allow them to clear a GR140-142 in PTR, just to take it away from them, because Monks and Barbs can’t be as strong as Wizards and Necros right?:roll_eyes:

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No, mah dude. That’s not what happened.

What happened was, you appeared on the Barb forums and started dropping “guides” like this one: Diablo 3 Forums

4 posts down, S4 calls you out for blatantly copy-pasting Dakkon’s build. But more importantly, you posted it in a forum where there already existed a complete MOTE EQ guide that was also stickied.

Here’s you getting called out for that: Diablo 3 Forums

And here’s Dakkon’s original build: Diablo 3 Forums

Originally, he never wrote the build out in the forums except in fragments scattered through various threads, but we had already identified it: Diablo 3 Forums

The year before, you tried it with this one: Diablo 3 Forums

Before that, you did the same thing with Dakkon’s “Trillions” Physical R6 Slam build, and Arch (Ulma), a Barb expert and one of the best players on the NA server, called you out for it.

So I tried to mediate and find some middle ground. Here’s what I posted:

I haven’t seen you post before, so I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. But the friction you are encountering (and will likely continue to encounter) in this forum stems from the fact that this is the place for Barb info. I don’t mean that as a proclamation of loyalty or e-peen; between the math heads, the creative types, and the sheer amount of testing and build refinement that happens on this forum, not to mention the developer outreach that starts here, there’s no better source for Barb info–in fact, there may be no better place for D3 info, period.

In comparison, Diablofans doesn’t hold up. If you’re using that site as the hub for your Diablo knowledge, you’re way behind the curve.

Then there’s the way this forum reacts to people who seem to be, for lack of a better term, cashing in on a Twitch account or YT channel. Most content makers are trying to reach the broadest possible audience, and that’s the most casual demographic of a given game. This forum, on the hand, caters to the experienced player, and tries its best to route casual or new players into specific threads for help. So, what you’re showing us is nothing new, and the reaction you’re likely to get is some variation on, So what?

Again, not trying to start an argument. My goal is to establish how this forum tends to work, what it does best, and explain what kind of reaction you’re likely to get, particularly from experienced players.

That was our first conversation. Things only went downhill from there, because you kept at it–plugging away for your YT videos and guides in a forum where the best, most complete guides were already written and established.

For the Barb community, the bottom line was that you kept showing up to post builds we already knew about, builds we had already codified in guides, builds we helped players with each and every day, and builds we were routinely topping the leaderboards with.

To be clear: You were copy-pasting builds created by others, then directing people to your videos and “guides,” and you were doing it in the forum that had written the best, most complete guides out there.

Talk about changing opinions? Brother, if you don’t see how that’s going to generate some friction, we are lost.

By the end, you started pulling stuff like this: Diablo 3 Forums

I dunno, man. I love your Necro videos. I was really happy when you covered our Buff Proposal. I think it’s good to have folks who are passionate about the game, and I even tune into your podcast now and then. I wish you much success, but I don’t think the approach you took with regards to the Barb community here has been the best. I’d like to see that rift healed, but calling us elitist isn’t getting the job done.

It’s not elitism to know your community is producing the best, most complete guides out there, to know your community does everything it can to help new and casual players and tailor content to the best, most hardcore crowd. It’s not elitism when your forum produces more analysis of game mechanics than any other, and when folks in the know routinely call the Barb community home, it’s not elitism to know why.

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The Barbarian forums aren’t elitist in my opinion. There’s just a lot of players there who understand D3 math and mechanics, and they get annoyed when players post false and misleading information. They get overzealous and defensive when bad information gets introduced. Things like claiming a 7 GR nerf is “small” would be an example.

I’ve seen so many of the Barbarian forum regulars answer questions from new players in those forums. There’s so many guides and resources there. The Barbarian community is passionate and they try to help a lot of players.

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1000% agree
Seems they want Barb as zBarb slave.

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In most cases, what a good way to cover what you claim… You think Fluffy is a PR mouthpiece? Did not you see his question about Diablo Immortal during the Q&A at Blizzcon 2018? A question that when Wyatt answered it, got Wyatt booed… “in most cases” though right? also he wasnt invited to Blizzcon this year. Hrmm… PR mouthpiece… yeah

What is your imaginary measurement for criticism? How do i determine what is fairly shadow & mild, and what is harsh? does someone need to always have harsh opinions about every single thing in order for them to not be a “PR mouthpiece”?

“they’re not journalists” okay, “in most cases” is what youre going to defend yourself with of course. have you seen the reaction to his " Diablo 4 Details & Demo Review" yt video and the comments saying he shouldnt criticise a game that hasnt even come out yet? or maybe you missed the Q&A i talked about above?

you think every person who streams is a “streamer” and they have some kind of “privileged position”? “in most cases” though right? HAHA

you like “some folk” who are “filthy casual” but their contribution to the larger community is middling? are you sure about that? the larger community is actually Casual. wait, that cant be true Skellz! no say it aint so! dont speak it! you guys here on the forums arent the majority… The content and contribution made by some of these “filthy casuals” as you call them arent just meh, or average, but actually very helpful to the majority of players of Diablo. especially those who dont want to go through toxic Barb forums to find information.

to think that someone cant comment on something just because you guys here on the forums think youre some elitist gatekeepers for the non “Filthy Casual” elitist players is quite funny. :smile: keep it up though youre doing an awesome job :wink:

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To be fair, he was a PR mouthpiece that disagreed publically with Blizzard and got himself ex communicated. Now, you can’t really blame Blizzard for this, but I think it would been a magnanimous gesture to invite Fluffy back.

As Free tried to do… Fluff’s Necro proposal was great work. Yet some chose to parse that down to him calling for Necro nerfs; one sentence out of a huge list of changes he advocated for Necro.

Oh man.

Look, for those wondering why the Barb community really wants no part of Fluffy, take a look at this, and jump to the 50 minute mark: Twitch

I’m cool with disagreeing with points, except his ability to disagree is just to say, “No.” He claims 140 is not the new solo standard, but if you look at the data I recently posted in the GD thread, you’ll see that it is–for quite a few classes, and very close for several others. All but Barbs and Monks, of course. He claims the nerf to Vyrs and Necro will lower the solo standard, but classes that aren’t getting nerfed, like WD, are still 140+.

Then, of course, he resorts to calling me a “f***ing idiot” before once again claiming it’s a “small nerf,” despite the fact that we have mathematically proven it’s not a small nerf.

But of course, he “feels for Barb.” Then he paints a picture of us persecuting him, throws in a few more personal insults, and rambles for a bit.

Y’all, I don’t think this paints a clearer picture of why we, the Barb community, occasionally eject folk like this. Maybe he’ll cover this on his stream and feel good for five minutes. Who knows? Who cares?

Not me :\

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You do know that all these buffs are actually proposed by a community effort in the forums. Along with the designed items? Ambos’s pride, Waste 6P, Fjord Cutter, BoD are all in that proposal.

Proposal website here: http://barbarianbuffproposals.strikingly.com/

This entire thread is unfortunate. Fluff seems to be being used as a scapegoat for the unfortunate issue with Lamentation when in fact people in this thread should be blaming the Blizzard devs for their choices.

Fluff explains why, of course, likely because thorns necro and vyr wizard are being adjusted then the Devs want to make sure that the solo version of whirlrend doesn’t blow other classes out of the water. But Fluff doesn’t need to take it upon himself to explain the Dev’s behavior - they have not had much love for barbs, period.

I don’t see why threads like these delve into arguments from authority - streamer or not, it is simply a truism that the ‘140 ceiling or 133 ceiling’ affects a tiny minority of the players, period.

However, the issue of course for players like me who are sick of rat runs is that the lamentation nerf takes away my 110 gr speed run group possibility unless I play zbarb which I don’t want to do in speed runs. And yet, Fluff made it clear in his outreach here that he wishes there was a way to keep the buff but still allow the solo grift adjustment to be done - he’s just thinking out loud here.

This isn’t about ‘barbs vs a streamer’ - it is unfortunately extremely rude to scapegoat someone like this. If only streamers had a say in Dev decisions maybe they would simply listen to Ze Darkpatator (the mr 10k paragon) who himself didn’t see a need to nerf lamentation and he has #1 solo clears with a few classes.

We (the people who love Diablo) aren’t going to achieve anything long term for this franchise if we snipe each other like this - it looks very, very petty.

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3GR is not a buff. It’s a lateral move, at best. Moving rend to be easier to use, but not giving it worthwhile damage is mostly a waste of time on the devs end. And adding rend to the 6pc does not make any difference at all if it’s not buffed additionally from there, since you have to get rid of Furnace/Fury in the cube to do so. You’re looking at maybe 50% more damage with ambo and unbuffed lamentation from what it is now, MoC and furnace. Again, not enough of a buff to make it even close to where 4 of the 7 classes are in GR clears.

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Then just keep yelling “freedom!” “we’re being nerfed!” “Racists against barbs!” more and more, that will surely not cause any antagonism, right…

Currently at 127, 129 and 130 on EU Barb leaderboards of S18 3 completely different builds are placed. No class gets to have that right now. Trailing those at 126 is a WW build. That’s 4 different builds on top 10 leaderboards.

With how WW is going to double its power throughput over and over even with “the nerf”, i see no place in complaining early.

Come here and quote me late season 19 when WW comfortably sits among the highest clears

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You should get off your high horse. Regardless of small nerf, big nerf, he took a picture and let people know that it was changed. He gave you an opportunity to say it isn’t right and hopefully be listened to. You’re out here acting like he is personally responsible for it being changed. “Eject folk” Who are you to even say that? For someone who claims to not care what he does, you’re making a big hullabaloo about what he’s doing.

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Maybe go to the stream

And watch after 50 mins.

Not cool at all.

Note to forum moderator: This post has lost its discussion value as some of the posters are insulting to forum members in other media as shown in the twitch link.

Closing this thread would be for the benefit of everyone.

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So barb is balanced within its own class? Big whoop, its still 8 GR behind 3 other classes, and 15 GR behind the highest clear for the season. That isn’t a perk.

Gonna need some math to back that one up.

Requiring a new build to be the strongest in the game is just silly. This buff will get WW from globally underperforming to a decent state - as it should.

This build already enjoys the most amazing perks possible literally in the entire game. Its the most versatile for every possible use, incredibly fast, incredibly powerful, 100% long-cooldown uptime with all the insane runes of that one.

What? The buff brings it from 130 to 133. How the hell is that a ‘decent state’?

I assumed you were talking about UE DH until the last 5 words there.

I saw the stream before you posted it asking for Free to respond to it (then deleting your post).

Maybe understand that the stream was done in the last 24 hours and this thread was created 5 days ago.

Maybe understand that a forum of people calling out someone gives that person a right of reply.

And finally, maybe understand that when persons on a messageboard deliberately misrepresent the points someone else is making, it can lead to this. It happens all the time - a very pathetic form of rhetoric people employ when in agenda-driven interest groups these days around the world.

My post already suggested that this thread be locked and/or deleted, because if we are going to get into personal callouts, that person has a right of reply. Period.

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