Stop Asking For Personal Loot

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
285

??? I thought I told you to stop doing maths you don’t understand. And also please stop spamming the forums. Your message is so copy-pasted there is the same probabilities twice per line, this is clearly some spamming, and I have to report you once again.
What does the random variable X represents here ? What is the probability distributon followed by it ?

I know it, because I’m the one who fixed it for you the first time you came up with that “2% chance” that was blatantly false (not that you cared as long as nobody dared to point it out), I calculated it for you and you had to fix it. You don’t know how to present a mathematical proof. Even a proof without maths, it seems. You are not an expert on this matter and it shows. So please can you stop trying to shutdown any arguments by maths neither you and your reader understand just so that you can keep retreating and bringing personal loot over and over again on almost EVERY SINGLE topic there is on these forums.

The vast majority of the players do not want personal loot, it was not in the initial game, and very strong arguments which solved this case have been brought by several smart people on the forums already.

BUT you keep spamming the forums over and over again with the exact same sentences and subjects, and I’m reporting you everytime it’s appropriate, and it’s a LOT.

And again, If you want these features, they already are in Diablo 3.

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286

Facts

And Facts.

The PLoot crowd is willingly blind to the much larger portion of players and posts in support of keeping Shared Loot in D2 . All you have to do is look at the number of posts in favor and against, and see which ones have the most likes.

And I don’t know why they can’t be satisfied with having D3 and D4 already going their preferred method. Let us keep D2R with its tried and true formula.

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287

That is also my assessment when considering likes on the D2R forum where you had to pre-purchase D2R to post. At least 30% (but still the minority) seem to want a second option/personal amongst those who posted on the D2R forum… Considering the sampling bias is for people who pre-purchased the game AND chose to express their views on the forum, this may not accurately reflect the D2R community/legitimate customers of D2R as a whole.

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288

Thanks a ton for linking this. David Brevik doesn’t think ploot should be in D2R either, hah.

He also brings up the incredibly important social point which most people don’t make - personal loot isolates players by showing only them what they’ve acquired. It decreases the sense of shared social experience in what is an extremely important aspect of the game, if not the most important - acquiring valuable treasure after fighting through the grim, challenging environments. It is the void-like quality of ploot.

If people are acquiring loot in fundamentally different ways, it becomes less fun to play together because we’ve lost the very basic shared experience of finding equipment. Shared experience is like a currency for the community, and the community will be impoverished if we take away this valuable shared experience.

If ploot is allowed, the dimension of gameplay which is acquiring loot will dull dramatically. I think ploot-proponents don’t understand how looting is an important dimension of Diabo II’s gameplay, and the game will lose a limb if it’s automated.

If players sometimes ploot, the community will be fractured because players won’t be able to commiserate about their experience of acquiring loot. We don’t know if the people next to us were auto-allocated their helm or if they fought for it and experienced the range that comes with that.

Also, admiring other characters will lose meaning as we won’t know whether or not they were just auto-given their cool equipment. If they’re just given their equipment, they are not engaging in a large amount of the challenge and reward mechanic in the game, so their “accomplishment” in the form of whatever loot they’re wearing is no longer interesting.

This messes with the spirit of the community.

Truly, though, it’s been repeated so many times, but it bears further repetition – there are so many other options for people who want ploot. Diablo II is the only option for fans of Diablo II.

Would a Super Mario World remaster be given more extensive fast-travel options because that’s the modern norm? Of course not…

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289

I’m sure there is a sample bias, but I don’t think it tips the way you think it does.

From what I can tell most people are holding off from preordering to make sure Blizzard doesn’t ruin it by changing too many things, and repeating WC3:R.

FWIW regardless of the forum, here, reddit, facebook, jsp, dii dot net, wherever, I see the same trends of most people wanting to keep the loot aspect the same.

290

That could be true; however, anyone who posted in the D2R forum are not those people. Therefore, D2R forum posters are those who bought it immediately (or with 2 weeks or so) after D2R was announced. Many forum poster have stated that they purchased D2R during the two days of Blizzconline.

Therefore, those expressing their views on the D2R forum are not the ones holding off on buying D2R to make sure it isn’t W3R. Therefore, the sampling bias in the D2R forum is highly skewed.

Also, I will add have you checked the discussion in the D3 general discussion, in particular this thread?

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/d2r-personal-loot-is-a-must-for-this-game/27592

Now, I know you may discount the opinions of folks on that forum, but there is a 550+ post thread there where people are discussing D2R in detail. In that thread, personal loot/options are more popular than FFF-only. I see alot of people wanting more D2R changes across multiple platforms.

Irrespective of the precise ratio, I think that is fair to say that there are a significant fraction who want FFA and those who want a different loot system or at least an option.

If you are right that FFA>>> other loot options, you have nothing to fear in allowing choice. In this scenario, most players if provided a choice will pick FFA and the non-FFA will be a ghost town. If D2 purists are the majority, there will be nothing (or very little) left for the designers since the playerbase will block all additional changes.

If you are wrong about FFA>>>loot options, then you may see why giving a choice was good for the playerbase more broadly.

In terms of using “likes” to judge popularity, the “top” thread in the D2R forum by a huge margin is this:
Why is the amazon so ungodly ugly? - Diablo II: Resurrected / General Discussion - Diablo 3 Forums (blizzard.com)
The OP has 283 likes that dwarfs any pro FFA-only thread by a huge margin. I would be careful about using forum likes.

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291

Well you are right about me discounting it, you telling me about the bias of the D2:R forum and then linking a Diablo 3 forum is… lets just say ironic to say the least.

I have already stated many times, as have others, how having it optional effects everyone. It has ramifications on the economy, trading, and other players who dislike the idea no matter how it is implemented.

I also find it funny the post you linked and many others link to a 4 year old twitch clip of Brevik saying he would be in favor of instanced loot for D2, yet there is a much more recent QA video here where he clearly says and I quote,

“No, I don’t want Instanced loot for D2:R."…"Now in retrospect, I think that it’s good the way it is and I wouldn’t want to change it because I think it would have a big impact on the economy….” (1:33:36 - 1:34:45)

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BcZLfncPfI)

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twitch clip and his tweet and his 2 year old reddit post and his comments when he, Max, Erich were interviewed together a couple of years ago.

In that youtube clip that you provided where Brevik discusses D2R, you failed to mention that Brevik said that Blizzard could provide an option for instanced loot in D2R (@1:33:55). This part was between the quotes that you provided and replaced it with “…”

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294

Is this intended to be a rebuttal? Saying that he said something numerous times in the past does not change that he has since changed his position on the topic.

And I don’t see how this has any relevance to lowering the significance of likes in forum posts. That just means that people from both sides of this argument as well as those who don’t care all agree the Amazon looks bad.

But please, find me a Diablo 2 focused forum that shows likes in favor of Personal Loot.

https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo2resurrected/comments/lqsev0/anyone_else_want_their_own_loot_for_d2r/

https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo2/comments/loxccm/loot_and_trade/

https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo2/comments/lqsgl9/anyone_else_want_their_own_loot_for_d2r/

https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo2/comments/lonlx8/should_diablo_2_resurrected_have_shared_loot/

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This is the only one of the 4 links that you provided that included a poll. That post reads:

"In my opinion the worst thing about Diablo 2 is shared loot drops, which put ranged players and people with slower computers at a large disadvantage in party play. Would you prefer that this feature remain the same in the remake or change to individual loot drops like in Diablo 3?

236 total votes

Keep shared loot drops (compete for drops) 147 votes (62.3%)
Change to individual loot drops (separate drops for each player) 89 Votes (37.7%)"

My conclusion
You will notice that the poll did not provide a third category where the loot option was defined at party creation in a multiplayer game. From this poll with only two categories, we can only conclude that of respondents in the r/diablo2 forum, more than 35% want personal loot to replace FFA. This is a far more sizeable fraction than that I would have predicted. I am not advocating for replacement.

Since ~38% of r/diablo2 poll respondents want to replace FFA loot and of the ~62% who voted to keep FFA only were not given the option to have the loot system be selectable, it seems that the majority even in this poll with highly skewed sampling bias may favor the PoE loot model if given that as an alternative to the FFA only option.

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296

I really hope some of those ‘‘Personal Loot’’ spammers play hardcore, i’ll filter them myself, can’t wait for hunting season.

Whole lot of dirty tps and ‘‘free rushes’’ that end at seis inc.

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297

wow - someone has not the same opinion as you and you feel the urge to ruin his experience?

you should check your mental health man

298

Shared experience? People spam click the boss when it dies and the items that drop are barely visible for 0.1 second… Then everyone just logs out. The only shared experience there is the spam clicking. I don’t think that makes shared loot superior compared to instanced loot systems.

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299

If people spam click the items meaning they dont even look at the drops, wouldn’t this be random who gets the loot?

Over many games want to take a guess at what’s likely the chance of you getting an item off Baal?

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300

Not sure where you are going with that. Loot is random either way, the bosses provide random items with random chance, it’s the distribution that would be different, which is also random in either FFA or instances loot.

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If Boss runs are a random click fest on the boss with no-one able to actually target items, over many games you get 12.5% of the loot. If the items were not visible, then your chance of picking up good item and a bad item are the same. This would end up with an allocation very similar to what personal loot gives any way.

Your example would show personal loot is not more fair in its distribution. What would shared loot be doing in your scenario? Just making it so you dont have to click?

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Yes, that’s the whole point, with instanced loot we would get the same income in average but no more clicking, so no more botting, and no more boring runs as levelers doing nothing but watching 1 guy killing, also no more worrying about ping issues.

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So now they can watch one guy kill and do all the work while guaranteeing drops?

This is taken from my FFA / Person thread:

Nothing changes with shared loot, you trust your friend enough he won’t ninja drops right? or can no one be trusted.

Hell do it as a monster level requirement so Act 1 hell it starts at 67 and act 5 hell ends at 85 so base the drop rate on the level of the player compared to the level of the content involved. If your at that content level or within -5 of the content you get no penalties to drops, any lower and your drop chances go towards the players within the same area but are able to do the content and contribute. All other odds for players able to do, or crush the content get the best odds.

No one wanting personal loot should argue with that change, or they are truly just wanting to leech items from stronger players.

Because I like examples so okay we are doing Act 1 Hell the requirement or act level is starting at 67. You have a party 75, 67, 65, 61, 60. Now they can leech xp just like before but now we gotta figure out drops.

Act 1 is starting at Level 67

Level 75 - 8 levels higher
Level 67 - Same level
Level 65 - 2 levels lower
Level 61 - 6 levels lower
Level 60 - 7 levels lower

The only ones in this case that clearly will not be helpful(and let’s just say this is pub to remove the random friends issue) are 61 and 60, at this point they are hurting us more than helping but we want to help them out. Should they receive 40% of the loot as well with their 0 effort needed?

Why not have their odds reflect possible contribution?

Level 65-67-75 can receive an increase in loot of 20% from the level 61 and 30% from the level 60. I just don’t see how not tying effort or ability to content doesn’t encourage much easier leeching.

We all know under 80’s in hell baal runs, especially full groups are basically useless, this calculation will keep that in mind, they can still get drops at 80 but any lower and their odds dramatically fall for drops as they should not be able to do this content anyways.

You can argue they don’t need to do anything now, but if you switch to personal, they don’t even need to be able to ever help out in combat, they actually can’t when they get below 10 levels to the content… why still allow them to be able to be rewarded with loot if they couldn’t even help if they wanted to.

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The whole concept of helping goes out the window when levelers are used to improve loot chances and then isolated from loot. It’s a trade between high lvlz and lowbies, one gets loot others get XP. It’s not helping, it’s a trade, which is beneficial to both in different aspect.

Difference in level can be adjusted prior to server creation. So then those who want to farm loot can make games and go with high lvls only so then all of them will have to put effort into it, if not they can go hostile on leechers and they won’t get loot.

In the other hand, levelers can also make their own servers intended for leveling with small level difference to do quests and gain XP together, then they can do the same and go hostile on leechers, they won’t get xp.

FFA encourages botting and levelers doing nothing. The whole concept of XP leeching runs goes down the drain and finally people can play the game for the same goal without a system encouraging them to do this “I get loot you get XP” farce. People should play the game together, not against each other, that’s called PvP and it has a separate place that isn’t about loot.

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305

How does making them need to do less work for more drops help anything, you say these things without accounting for any of that. Why can’t people now just load up 3 accounts on follow, making them 36% drop chance or whatever that number mRNA keeps spouting. You account for none of that. You claim this will fix these issues, I show how they won’t with examples.