Does Stone of jordan proc with Holy, Poison and Physical damage?
Does it proc with with Convenction of elements ring?
Thx
SoJ will make all static elemental damage bonuses equal to that which is the highest from the gear. So let’s say you have 40% Fire damage in total, all other elements will be also 40%. Note however the elements must available to class you’re playing, a class that does not have fire skills can not benefit from fire damage bonuses and SoJ thus won’t buff those.
CoE rotates between elements and is thus non-static buff. It is a separate multiplier.
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Not much to explain. Stone of Jordan is a terrible power. But Kirottu has the right of the functionality.
I wouldn’t say it’s a terrible power but it does have very limited use. The main benefit is to stack up other damage element than which your main damage dealing skill uses if that is easier.
For example back in S24 crusders using thorns builds could stack up holy damage as one of the ethereals only rolled with holy damage bonus and then use SoJ to convert that to physical damage bonus.
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Simplified explanation is soj converts your highest on gear element total% into all element% that class is able to hard.
Damage element type is determined by the skill/rune using
As said, COE is a separate multiplier, not additive with your sheet elemental%
Stone of Jordan is great for people who don’t want to bother with the CoE timer.
If, for example, you have 3 items with +XX% (same) element damage you always get that damage bonus regardless of what you’re using skill wise. And you don’t need to time it or wait 12 seconds for 4 seconds. Plus, the Stone always rolls with +elite% damage, and sometimes 30%.
With CoE, you have to use a skill with an elemental rune matching its rotation when it cycles to it… that is, every time it hits cold, if you’re using cold, you get its bonus. For 4 seconds. Some people, like me, have a difficult time seeing the icon and never see the “effect” in actual combat because there is just too much else going on.
However, that said, I tend to only use the SoJ early on if I have found it and not a CoE.
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It’s not terrible. It’s just a little weird because it doesn’t really do anything on its own.
One way to use it, for example, is to stack a bunch of +fire elemental damage for a LoD build and then with a SoJ you can use a non-fire rune for your main attack and still get all of the benefit.
Another use–though I’m not sure if there is such a build–is to stack a bunch of one type of elemental damage, and then use two different attacks that do different types of elemental damage. Both attacks will be equally empowered by the elemental damage.
A third use I’ve seen is you have a build that requires a certain item that always rolls with a specific type of elemental damage, but you want to use an attack that uses a different type of element. So you stack + elemental damage of the type on the item and then use SoJ so that it buffs the preferred attack and the bonus elemental damage on the required item doesn’t go to waste.
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SoJ just gives you a flat consistent damage bonus depending on the elemental damage bonus. If you have 40% cold skill damage and 20% fire skill damage on your equipment, SoJ will consider the highest value and make them all equal to 40%.
The gist is, that it synergizes with really limited amount of legendary powers and it requires some dedicated loot hunt to make it work. SoJ can be supported by items that have elemental skill damage and damage against elite enemies. However, it’s also demanding that you have high amount of sustain within’ the build from the get-go.
When you use CoE, for 4 seconds each, a cycle will empower the elemental damage available to your class. This will differ from 3-5 different cycle types for each class Necros have the least with 3 cycles and Monks have the most downtime between with 5 cycles while rest only have 4 elementals available to them.
In case you use CoE with SoJ, it will only consider your static bonuses on equipment, while calculating the damage bonus of elemental cycles. Hence the “static” and “non-static” expressions on their tooltips
If you wear SoJ and CoE together, CoE will only consider what’s on your equipment. CoE will completely ignore the SoJ’s additional to bonuses to other elementals when calculating the damage from cycle.
^Also that.
^And that.
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So if your using a Monk, for instance, with a perfect COE ring of 200% elemental damage, you would average 40% elemental damage based on the 5 available elemental skills available.
With SOJ and a perfect roll, you would have a flat rate of 20% elemental damage. Plus 30% damage to elites. Plus increased maximum resource.
COE can also roll double crit, which would greatly increase damage over SOJ.
Which one is better?
If you take them separately; CoE offer higher crit rating and bigger boom on area damage when your cycle peeks, SoJ offer high elemental damage without doing anything in particular but you need crowd control with wide area of effect to make use of increased elite damage. If we’re speaking of Monks that depends on Monk’s gear optimization plus the side traits you have on your build.
Mathematically speaking with 4-5 elemental cycles available, a 200% increased elemental damage CoE boils down for 40-50% damage increase overall. This is considering you didn’t miss the cycle casts by mistimed cooldowns or bad positioning. This means when you miss, the damage output will be lower than expected values. You may not wanna jump in that Oculus circle when there are wormholes and desecrator pits nearby. You can panic cast something early, sitting at cooldown or a frozen pulse flushes you out from a narrow corridor as you about to hit that elemental cycle.
However, you can also cover this downfall of CoE greatly by unleashing skills that hit multiple targets all at once at your peak opportunity, so you make use of area damage best. You don’t need high sustain. You just need some crowd control or some jukes at your down time and hit multiple targets at your peak. This is very cooldown heavy gameplay and great as it doesn’t demand much besides reflexes.
If we look at a perfect SoJ roll, alone it’s about 56% damage increase (1.2x*1.3x = 1.56x) against Elites and only 20% for normal monsters, which will be the large portion of the monster types you’ll face in a Greater Rift. The increased damage against Elites also would encourage you to pull monster aggression towards the elites to make use of this bonus as well; this require your build to be tanky at the first place.
So sadly, SoJ isn’t enough alone, as it will be outclassed by CoE against normal monsters on a one-on-one comparison. You need to support SoJ with extra elemental skill damage on equipment to be comparable to performance of CoE. You need more equipment that support extra elemental skill damage around +80-100% to be near as good as CoE burst almost at a constant rate. I mean, you can stack some Elite damage instead, but you might not have sufficient mobility and crowd control (charm? vacuum?) at every build to make use of that.
If SoJ gives you constant damage bonus, then you better have high sustain to keep your main damage skills ramping up. You have to have really good amount of sustain to make use of that constant and passive damage increase. This has to be packed with resource management with an array of buffs and debuffs at your service.
This means, your build shouldn’t have major problems with cooldowns or have to make best use of mass crowd control so you can cover cooldowns sinking back. Preferably both; this usually comes from your skills (resource battery and large area radius control impairment) on top of resource related bonuses of Set itself.
To add, SoJ really works with rather limited junction. It relies on skills proccing other skills usually and that’s why it’s somewhat favored for LoD/LoN builds. There are only a few items in the game that allow different damaging effect occurances on specific skill casts. Those can be used to mix and match damage effects with different elementals.
On top of my head some builds that use Winter Flurry and Won Khim Lau are pretty popular to have SoJ setups. There are other alternatives but it’s doubtful that they’re any comparable though.
Which is better? Hard to answer. SoJ is nothing without supporting legendaries but it’s a cherry on top when you already have high sustain but requires specific items. CoE is astonishingly good, even when taken into account alone but it has pitfalls, while isn’t demanding much for equipment. The answer usually lies within’ the respond of “which traits do my build have?” and “how long can I afford to loothunt?”.
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I said it’s a terrible power, and it is useless because it really does nothing. I can’t think of a single build that wants to use SoJ, except maybe Star Pact.
It would only take a slight adjustment to make the power actually good though. Simply making it:
Stone of Jordan
Each of your elemental’s damage bonus is equal to DOUBLE your highest static elemental bonus to skill.
Would put it on an equivalent level to other legendary rings.
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When developers design items, they try their best to induce some interaction for hooking the player with the flow and dynamics. Usually you, as a developer, do NOT want to give extra benefits passively to the player.
However, when they do at occassions, there’s always a catch or a limiter. That’s how you balance it because passive and active in-combat benefits require dedication in different terms and one outclassing other threatens the build diversity.
Let me give you two examples; Guardian’s Jeopardy and special rings for Witch Doctors.
At former case, Guardian’s Jeopardy becomes useless when you hit around 2k+ plvl as you start to gain power and reach the push capable range. Because Guardian’s Set only takes the stats granted by items you equipped in account and ignores your paragon level and augments which gradually have bigger impact on your progress longer you play. That’s the catch.
Other example(s) are rings of Witch Doctor, namely Ring of Emptiness and as popular, SMF. Those two rings grant their bonus passively so they usually outclass Convention of Elementals at a major case of WD builds. But you get to see that Witch Doctor is only one class and one class only, while elemental based bonuses like SoJ can apply to multiple classes.
SoJ requires many different elemental skill boosting items to be considered any viable and actually requires build to fit some terms to completely dedicate your build to it. Power doesn’t straight equal to damage or damage numbers, but has to be paired with sustain for consistency. In any case if you are having problems with cooldowns or resources, that makes you lose damage output with some graceful efficiency. As a result, any other option would look better in comparison.
tl;dr: You can’t possibly convince developers to buff completely passive all class related powers without a serious limiter so they outclass interaction inducing ones. Even though SoJ’s usage is pretty niché it’s good where it stands; just being gear specific.
I get what you guys are explaining, sort of what I was arguing with Starpact build for but I wouldn’t take that as a hard stance that SOJ has good function and is fine - that’s the part where I’d have to agree with Venaliter that it could use some love.
In pretty much all situations where it’s actually useable it’s relegated to speeds, you’d still use COE for maximum push potential. That implies need for improvement.
There is disagreement there is need for improvement? I don’t think I’ve ever used the item since RoS launched. SoJ used to be really good…when there was nothing else.
At least half of the SoJ works with CoE, just not the elemental affix. The half that does work is the +% damage to elites. Yes, that makes it worth less against non-elite monsters, but when you’re struggling against those elites and rift guardians, I’ve seen it make the difference between a push completion and a failed timer. Unfortunately even with the way you have to play CoE, you’ll usually get more bang for your resource with CoE than with the SoJ due to fighting more non-elite monsters than elites (to say nothing of SoJ’s ridiculous setup requirements to be moderately functional).
Doubling the bonus to elemental damage would really help SoJ. Text would be needed in the tooltip explaining the bonus does not stack or function in tandem with CoE. Just saying “static elemental damage” is confusing, even if it is accurate. You are after all trading one of your ring slots for SoJ when there are far more compelling items for most builds.
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ALL of that function is degraded by other sources of elite damage % ( rolls, aughilds, furnace) and elemental damage, because it is additive.
CoE, endless walk, squirts, RoE, Halo(s), FoT and other top tier jewelry affixes do not share this…dilution. if SoJ offered a true 50% bonus, it would be on par. Which is why I want to double the affix; because then it would.
Plus, the 30% elite damage bonus is only active probably less than half the time, because your not always fighting an elite, as TheTias is alluding too.
Theoretically, it should work best with the Wizard Tal Rasha’s set and CoE but the better builds avoid using SoJ.
Yeah, something like that would be nice imo.
Yeah, if you reduce the elite damage % by half (uptime), (to 15) and elemental damage by roughly half (due to diminishing returns) you get a bonus of roughly ~25%.
If you double the affix, you get roughly a 50% power boost (right now, the affix adds almost NOTHING) ; it varies based on how much + elemental bonus you have. I think it can be a 60% boost with massive elemental damage stacking. Be nice if CoE wasn’t the always best option anymore.
I was just making it clear to the other posters explaining it’s niche uses that we’d still like to see a sizeable buff to it and it not continue to get ignored, doubling elemental affix is a good start. I already forgot what idea I had before so just making it a simple double is probably best.