Absolutely. I’m glad you found this report.
I mean I read (almost) every reddit post on d3, I just stopped playing because there’s nothing for me to do. That includes your weekly seasonal reports and stuff.
I still don’t fully agree with your methodology, as in, I’m pretty sure I am the top adjusted roland clear (or close to, 138 in ~11min with ~10k para should give roughly 136.5 adjusted) yet I could probably clear 142 or 143 if I really tried hard, which with adjusted clear of -3.5 (10k para, 15min clear) would put roland at 139ish instead. Which is quite bit different from 136.
Of course not every build is like that but you see why I am not super wowed by it either.
Other issue I have is you can spend 200 hours fishing for the perfect map or 150 hours farming more xp and then 50 hours fishing for a less perfect map, your adjusted clear time would be lower on the second clear even though your actual time investment was the same, you’re the same player, etc. You just choose a different path to achieve the same objective.
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Haha, well, to be fair, Kika, I don’t think I have ever seen you be “super wowed” by anything, ever!
Our analysis considers the available evidence. And, the numbers it arrives at for adjusted clear are essentially a minimum. You are, btw, indeed the top Roland clear on our board (and also the #2 and #4 clears), with a top adjusted clear of 136.5. Does that mean that we are certain you could not go higher? Not at all. Just that we are certain that at 5k paragon, you could do at least 136.5, under the timer.
That said, the other players sharing that top 10 with you (Dibba, Northwar, fw6263) are also great players, and all your clears are clustered pretty closely together. So again, the evidence seems to suggest that top number is at least fairly reasonable.
Consider it from our perspective: what are the alternatives, instead of what we’ve presented here?
- Don’t think about build strength, at all, because it’s completely futile, since it’s impossible to really know anything about anything. I mean, Pestilence Necro might be much better than Marauder DH. Who can say, really?
Is that better?
- Just look at the base leaderboard, with none of the mathematical bells and whistles dmkt and I have implemented here. Who cares if the top guy on the leaderboard has 20000 paragon, while the 2nd place guy has 3000? The first guy still cleared higher, and that’s all that matters.
Is that better?
- Implement the “a guy told me” system, i.e. “A guy told me he could do much better than that at Roland, so let’s raise the number. A guy told me he could do much better than that at PoJ Monk, so let’s raise the number. A guy told me Raekor is actually a bad build, so let’s lower the number.”
Is that better?
Obviously, I would say “no” to each of those, but you’ll have to make up your own mind. In the case of #3, not every “a guy” is you. Your opinion is obviously quite valuable when it comes to Roland. But, even so, all we can really go on, if this is going to make any sense, is the existing evidence. But, I’ll be happy to be proved wrong, when you take down 143!
Sadly, there’s no data point which shows how hard people try. Our report is as good as the proof demonstrated by players actually pulling off the clears.
The only clues that we have for Roland’s ability to push a few tiers higher are the light green indicators of Column E and F, which just show there are some gaps between your Peak clear(s) and the rest. Dibba’s 135.7 adjusted clear is your closest rival clear, is -0.8GRs below your best.
So I’d interpret the light green as a parallel to your general sentiment about pushing Roland’s. Not enough interest in this particular case.
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I think it’s pretty clear this is Kikaha’s own fault for not really pushing Roland. 
I’m glad you agree, and the devs should definitely buff Fleshrake next season.
The barb community did wow me when they said that WW/rend barb nerf was unwarranted a couple years ago, and then called everybody who said that, yes, WW/rend should be nerfed, the “fun police”. And now look at it, with basically no buff since then, it’s still the second best barb build in the game according to your data.
That’s basically what maxroll does and it works fine imo. Of course, you need people who play those builds, who know what they’re talking about, etc. People like Northwar, Wudi, and other top players like them who are willing to share their knowledge.
I’ll push 143 is someone pushes 142, I have no reason to push currently (cf my 11min clear in 138 lol), and I’m sure many players are like me for other sets, because d3 is kind of a dead game. I’m sorry to say, it’s still my favorite arpg gameplay wise but when I play on the most dead server of lost ark (EU west) I see more (different) people in a day than I see on D3 in a week…
That being said, I completely understand why you do your tier list the way you do it, I’m just saying I don’t really like it. To me it undervalues the smartest way to play d3, which is to farm xp/gear and then push. You put low paragon fast clears higher than high paragon fast clears, even though maybe the same amount of time was spent on the clear, but one decided to (imo stupidly) invest all his time into finding the perfect rift, whereas the other decided to invest time as a whole into his account, getting better gear, more paragon (to push something else if he wanted to) for at the end of the day, the same gr clear.
You put a LOT of effort into all of this, and I am glad that some people are still that invested in the game. It’s better for it to exist than not exist. I just urge people who read the thing to not take it as gospel and see its flaws.
As much as I love DS, I’m not sure a DS-based “real” build is a good thing. You’d get dizzy really fast. Imagine dashing 5+ times per second for 15 minutes. 
I think I’m the only person to push DS in recent memory in the entirety of NA, so this would really only benefit me, but I’d still love to see it happen.
For farming you’d get dizzy very quick, but for pushing it’s a different game. It’s a very active build, and you’re fairly stationary and always switching between generators. Probably my most-played build in D3.
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Well, third best (after LoD HotA). I guess I’ll take it as a positive that you aren’t “wowed” by our analysis, since “being wowed” only seems to be a negative for you!
AFAIK they use an “adjustment” system like the one dmkt and I built, and then tweak that based on the personal assessments of the people you mentioned. That of course has plusses and minuses- it may lead them to (perhaps) correctly “tweak” a build like Roland up a little (B tier on Maxroll, C tier in our assessment), but it’s also led to some assessments that are almost certainly incorrect, like “tweaking” AoV and (especially) Zunimassa into being rated higher than Firebird / LoD HotA / Raekor / Rathma / etc.
Right, well, what you’re talking about here is something like a combined Solo Push / Solo XP efficiency tier list, linked to a single set. And: that can certainly be a real thing. Raxx puts out something like that (though, I think he talks about each class as a whole, not each set) on his Youtube channel most seasons, though Maxroll itself doesn’t really have anything like that. But you certainly could do something like that for each set, rating its overall “quality” in terms of all in-game activities (push, xp, keys, bounties, group play, etc) in a combined, cumulative way.
Of course, a lot of people really don’t play the game that way. I think most people pushing Raekor hard this season, for instance, probably farmed up a lot of their paragon with Inna.
So yes, from that “combined push / xp” perspective, Inna is considerably better than Raekor. But, our sheet really is just about solo push. So:
Yes, of course we do. If you don’t think it’s more impressive (and more indicative of a stronger build) to clear GR 150 in 10:00 with 5000 paragon than to clear GR 150 in 10:00 with 20000 paragon, then I guess we just fundamentally disagree about some basic facts.
There, we agree. I wouldn’t want people to take any of this as gospel, either. Some healthy skepticism is always a good thing.
Not at all. You basically completely missed my point I would say. It’s not about a build being better at XP farming, it’s about putting on top players who waste their time menu gaming rather than xp farming and how this is not a good thing.
Basically, imo low paragon players who end up near the top of your LB are the ones who abuse the very thing you denounce in your explanation on the document, about fishing for illu packs. Reason being that if they’re low paragon they spent less time grinding XP and thus had more time to spend fishing maps.
Well, maybe so, but that’s only because I assumed your point to be something that was kind of reasonable, and not completely ridiculous.
Instead, I guess your point is this:
So: “grinding XP” is honorable, but “fishing” is dishonorable, and this should somehow be noted in the leaderboard, on Maxroll, and/or in our document.
Your completely ridiculous opinion has been noted, thanks for sharing. I think we’re done here!
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blizzard, dont be blizzarded. pay these two some money and use this data. you literally have players doing your work for you, pay them and maybe hire them for D4 data analytics.
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Gonna try to do some updates on State of Set tomorrow.
Might run some seasonal numbers too.
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I managed to clear solo GR 150 with every Wizard set in non season. As I checked it is the first time one Wizard player cleared GR 150 on all set leaderboards within one era.
It also seems Wizard is the second class to do it, after Barbarian Chinese player fw6263 did it in era 16.
The hardest clear was with Vyr’s set, although I did it with Vyr Frozen Orb, instead Chantodo. I think this is the first 150 clear with Vyr’s set after Chantodo nerf. In my opinion Frozen Orb is stronger than Chantodo, but it seems that 150 is also possible with Chantodo (fw6263 cleared GR 148 with 20000 paragon in 13:32).
Wonder which class will be next?
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good job. some of those wizard sets are pretty hairy.
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Very well done!
That puts your adjusted clear marks for this Era at:
Typhon: 144.7
Tal Rasha: 152.3
Delsere: 146.1
Vyr: 144.7
Firebird: 146.8
No Set: 150.0
I assume you were using Meteors for your No Set clear?
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Thx. Yes, Wizard sets are special
Thanks. Yes, I did this clear with cold meteor archon shimizu build. Much stronger build than with twister.
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Any interest in giving a quick explanation of this build’s gearing + playstyle? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it played.
I assume you take some damage to get yourself down to ShiMizu range, then use shields to keep yourself alive? And: I’m guessing this is reverse Archon, where all your damage comes in non-Archon form?
I did a partial update on State of Set, including all Barb + Wiz sets, AoV, Akkhan, Crusader No Set, Marauder, Inna, Monk No Set, Inarius, Trag’Oul, Rathma, Necro No Set, and all WD sets except Jade and Helltooth. So: most sets. I’ll try to get to the remainder soon.
Edit: finished updating the rest. So they’re current as of 12/27/2022.
Here are the standings of the current top 10:
| Set/Build | Peak Adjusted Clear | Average Adjusted Clear in top 10 | Adjusted 100th place clear |
|---|---|---|---|
| Wiz Tal Rasha | 153.7 | 152.7 | 150.6 |
| Barb Raekor | 151.9 | 151.3 | 148.6 |
| Wiz No Set | 151.7 | 149.6 | 144.0 |
| Necro Trag’oul | 151.6 | 151.0 | 148.4 |
| Crusader Akkhan | 151.2 | 150.6 | 146.7 |
| Necro Rathma | 151.2 | 149.8 | 142.4 |
| DH Marauder | 151.0 | 150.2 | 147.3 |
| Monk No Set | 151.0 | 150.4 | 147.6 |
| Necro No Set | 150.6 | 149.8 | 143.4 |
| Barb No Set | 149.0 | 147.7 | 138.3 |
We’ve got 9 sets that can break adjusted 150.0, and 8 that can break 151.0!
Also noteworthy: Wiz No Set (LoD Meteors) is ahead of Trag’Oul. Meteors, in general, are very powerful…the 100th place Tal clear would tie for 9th place with Necro No Set! (both 150.6 adjusted).
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I’m looking forward to the new PTR invalidating everything we know about set strength. How about you Rage?
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Haha, yeah, of course! Lord only knows when we’ll see it, though.
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