In my previous table, I showed how six gumdrops can be mashed together to make a lump of sticky garbage. Would you say this is balanced according to the developer projections for cats in space?
The consensus is that it is far worse than dual wielding.
My take is that some algebra is needed to fix base damage of 2 handers (Others like doubling the stat value i.e. double socket or top green gem worth 260% CHD).
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Seven plus your favorite taste equals potato, can you swim?
That about cover it?
What I consider fun is not necessariily what you consider fun.
What is more fun in your opinion:
A) A well-balanced game where no matter your class-preference, you have similar power to other classes.
or
B) A poorly balanced game (e.g. in patch 2.6.6) where one class is OP in comparison to others (wizards) while other classes are quite weak (e.g. barbs and monks).
I think that if you surveyed 100 players, the vast majority would think option A is more fun than B.
Ultimately, your opinion and my opinion do not matter. A developer has clearly said their goal is A. I agree with him. I like to play all classes and it will be nice when they are well-balanced.
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The egos in this room are stealing all the air. I can’t f. breath
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I still don’t get how when barbs were underperforming, people was using top clears as a reference asking for buffs, and were using math and things to demand buffs.
Now when people uses math and top clears to show that WW it’s overperforming people uses emotional arguments like “fun” and call other people the nerf/fun police.
Maybe you should create a table using rank 1, rank 500 and rank 1000 as reference, maybe with that on mind some people will understand that WW it’s overperforming at every single level of play.
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I must choose my words from now on, since I’m one step away of getting a perma ban in these forums. Apparently I’m not entitled of speaking my mind since it’s viewed as an offense to the snowflakes. God forbid I opress them in their safe spaces.
Thing is, each and everyone of us decide what is fun or not. You guys get all technical and serious and sh!t, writing posts as they were some kind of revolutionary thesis and take to heart every piece of different opinion. By the gods, so much drama. This is a freaking video game, for Christ sake. You guys, who are obsessed of nerfing other classes who seems to disrupt the universe balance, acting like you are gdawn Thanos of sorts, you should CHILL. Let the devs care for such things! Care about your favorite class and play your stupid game so you can have FUN!
My God, some of you overcomplicate things so much, and take this game so seriously, I wonder if your wives do not feel lonely, or have left already!
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People with 9-10K paragon are clearing in the 140’s, OK, fine, we agree on that.
People with 2-3K paragon are struggling to clear 125-130 without massive amounts of fishing for perfect rift, mob, and pylon combinations.
That is not an over performing build.
That is why I don’t agree that we should be calling for balancing based on what someone with massive paragon levels are doing.
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I must choose my words from now on, since I’m one step away of getting a perma ban in these forums. Apparently I’m not entitled of speaking my mind since it’s viewed as an offense to the snowflakes. God forbid I opress them in their safe spaces.
Idk how this is relevant to the topic, if you get banned is because you break code of conduct, if as an adult you can’t follow simple rules is only your fault.
Thing is, each and everyone of us decide what is fun or not. You guys get all technical and serious and sh!t, writing posts as they were some kind of revolutionary thesis and take to heart every piece of different opinion. By the gods, so much drama. This is a freaking video game, for Christ sake. You guys, who are obsessed of nerfing other classes who seems to disrupt the universe balance, acting like you are gdawn Thanos of sorts, you should CHILL. Let the devs care for such things! Care about your favorite class and play your stupid game so you can have FUN!
By that logic no one even should ask for buffs neither, because devs know what they were doing right ? (even if that means barbarian being the weakest class for a lot of time)… using your logic we can say that barbarians were obsessed with balance too, because they created countless topics about how weak was barbarian…
No one is trying to start drama, i don’t insult people, the ones that try to start drama are always the guys that get banned from forums, not the guys that post math/tables or take data from high paragon clears.
@Phoenix
Just check the site that micro posted on other topic in barbarian forums, go to the non season barbarian tab, and check the data… people is doing +130 with 3k paragon…
After that move to the other classes and check how many are actually +130 and how much paragon they have…
If you do that you can actually notice that WW it’s overperforming (and you can’t even use the argument of “balance about top clears is bad” because a 130 clear is not even top 300…)
No, I won’t do that.
So…not over performing then
What doesn’t show is how long these people spent burning keys to find one particular map type, that also line up with particular mob types, and pylon spawns.
And if all of those stars align, people with 3K+ paragon, are still only able to do 130.
Thanks, you’re making my point for me. 
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No, I won’t do that.
Then you refuse to check the data, what is your argument to not check it ?, are you scared to know the truth ?
What doesn’t show is how long these people spent burning keys to find one particular map type, that also line up with particular mob types, and pylon spawns.
And if all of those stars align, people with 3K+ paragon, are still only able to do 130.
Thanks, you’re making my point for me.
Every single class can do fishing, so that is not an argument. But if you check the number of people that can actually clear +130 with other classes you will notice that the number of players compared to WW it’s super small, and these clears have way more paragon than 3k (not considering the AoV case, because even devs said that AoV it’s super OP)
Nothing like that. The best piece of advice I have even been given on these forums is 'Ignore everything Mirco posts, the forums will make a lot more sense".
So far, that advice has proven to be more accurate than anything Micro has ever posted.
But if the only way a class is powerful is to line up certain maps/mobs/pylons, then it’s not the build that’s OP, is it?
Does it show you the total number of players?
Because I’d be prepared to be that there are a lot more people playing/pushing on Rend Barbs than other classes at the moment, because of the changes.
So in terms of percentage of players, I’d bet they are pretty similar, at best.
Nothing like that. The best piece of advice I have even been given on these forums is 'Ignore everything Mirco posts, the forums will make a lot more sense".
So far, that advice has proven to be more accurate than anything Micro has ever posted.
This argument it’s pure non sense, the tables in that site are actually the ladderboards of every single region of this game (yes that site consider china too), so is not like micro created these tables, also with this you pretty much prove my point that people here is just in state of denial, so they will never accept any proof of WW being OP.
Does it show you the total number of players?
Because I’d be prepared to be that there are a lot more people playing/pushing on Rend Barbs than other classes at the moment, because of the changes.
So in terms of percentage of players, I’d bet they are pretty similar, at best.
I don’t get how is this relevant, but if you are going to use the bad argument of “a lot of people is playing WW because it’s something new” you can actually compare current WW with clears of other classes in the past era (for example with wizards, that were super popular before nerfs).
No actually it’s not. It’s been proven repeatedly by many people that he intentionally provides skewed data, misrepresents data, and lets not forget the misrepresenting ‘thoughts and feelings’ as facts. He doesn’t even understand his own arguments, or that the data he is trying to use represents, he doesn’t understand the mechanics of the game. Then he moves to straw man arguments, and trying to use his data to answer questions no one is asking. It’s happened over, and over, and over again.
So even if he manages to post something that is right, most people will ignore it because of his history.
Because if most people are playing Rend Barbs, then obviously it stands to reason there are going to be a lot more Barbs at every level of clear.
My clan for example, on season and non season has massive amounts of records for Barbs on the clan ladder. But there is hardly anything on the other classes.
One of the top players has cleared 125-130 on just about every class. But he is the only one in that range.
But I don’t need to, because again, I don’t care what other classes were/are doing at any given time.
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No actually it’s not. It’s been proven repeatedly by many people that he intentionally provides skewed data, misrepresents data, and lets not forget the misrepresenting ‘thoughts and feelings’ as facts. He doesn’t even understand his own arguments, or that the data he is trying to use represents, he doesn’t understand the mechanics of the game. Then he moves to straw man arguments, and trying to use his data to answer questions no one is asking. It’s happened over, and over, and over again.
Micro can’t manipulate the data of that site… that site updates the data with the clears of every single region of this game. So what micro thinks or post in the forums has no effect in that site…
So even if he manages to post something that is right, most people will ignore it because of his history.
That is just deny the truth then, good to know that you will never accept an argument even if it’s right just because you don’t like X guy in this forum.
But I don’t need to, because again, I don’t care what other classes were/are doing at any given time.
Seems like you just don’t want to check the data because you are aware that what micro was saying was accurate lmao.
You should see some of his previous tables
That’s your interpretation, and it’s wrong.
No, again, that’s you misrepresenting what I said.
Here it is in the simplest terms, my argument has always been that balancing on top clears of 10K paragon players, is idiotic. That view hasn’t changed. My argument is still the same.
However, the nerf crowds argument continues to change and evolve as their arguments get crushed. Most of them show a clear lack of understanding of their own argument.
You just proved this by not understanding basic statistics, that if the majority of players are playing a certain class, then clearly they will have more high clears.
And yet you say I’m the one in denial?
We’re never going to agree on this, that much is clear, but I’m not the one changing my argument.
You just proved this by not understanding basic statistics, that if the majority of players are playing a certain class, then clearly they will have more high clears.
Nope, that is why i said compare wizard from past era with current WW barb (this was in order to delete the popular factor that WW has this era, in the past era the popular guy was wizard).
But doesn’t this just prove what I said?
They have a lot of high clears because they have more people playing them?
If you compare the popular wizard from the past era, with the popular WW from this era, you will notice that WW beats the clear of wizard from past (and with less paragon) (and this it’s actually worse for WW barb, because this patch was released like 1 month ago only, we are using the data from 1 month against the data of an entire era, and WW already beats wizard, at high, medium and low paragon)