S6 with Captain set

Not much fuzz going on with S6 right, now.
Aughild is not great solo, IMO. In seasonal leaderboards most seem to run Standard S6. Have seen some using Aughild in the lower ranks, though.

However there was a great addition for S6: Captain Set (CC3).

#TLDR:
Drop Shadow belt and Elusive Ring (in offensive variant), Topaz in Helmet, add some additional RCR for 40% damage on top!
No more Perma Vault, though!

Longer Version:

Basic Build will have:

RCR 42.0% (with 1 RCR roll) - so 42 Damage reduction (Topaz in Helmet, CDR+RCR Shoulders)
CDR 33.76% without Gogok. With 15 Gogok stacks - that is: 43.70% - so 43.70% more damage with CC3.

So we lose some defense. 1 RCR roll won’t be enough if you run CoE instead of elusive, IMO.

Basically we have to make up the DR loss from dropping elusive with RCR.

RCR

More detailed look about how much RCR we need:

RCR Rolls (8%) RCR/DR % DR loss vs Elusive (60%) comment
1 42,04 % 42,72 % not enough
2 46,67 % 28,54 % -
3 50,94 % 17,78 % sweet spot?
4 54,86 % 9,35 % -

So without high paragon and some more RCR rolls, this won’t work. 42% vs 60% doesn’t look like much - but it is ~43% less DR.

3x8% RCRrolls are on par with double unity instead of elusive.

CDR
Not really needed (besides mandatory shoulder roll), because we are at ~33% based and at ~ 43% with Gogok stacks.

There are usually better rolls - as the damage increase will be kinda low.
But if you got a good item with CDR, it’s not that bad. It also helps with wolf uptime (especially nice in groups).

How de we get there? Stats allocation

  • Base is Topaz + RCR/CDR shoulders (yes we gotta drop AD - but AD was never that great for this build, IMO)
  • Gloves - we can drop IAS (which adds less than 5% and is kinda pointless if you run PE)
  • Rings or Quiver. Note that perfect HPS is kinda hard to get, Compass rose also.

You gotta keep in mind, that we don’t want to lose too much DPS here.

But some is fine - as long as ~43% damage will be an increase.
One IAS roll is ~ less than 5% DPS.
Damage/CHC/CHD on a ring is in a maxed build ~7-8%. (It will change if you do that more than one time)
15% impale on quiver is ~ 11,5% in a maxed build.

Don’t forget that these are all multiplicative - so you can just add these up to compare.

Hidden benefits

  • In standard build Aquilas flickers. Which means any Impale shot will get you below 90% threshhold until it hits. It is really short in melee fights, though - just some milliseconds (travel time of the projectile until it hits). But sometimes you are not that close - and you can the killing blow if it is off.
  • Perma-Fan of Knives with full Gogok stacks - in Standard build it’s off for 0,158s (+manual delay)
  • Seasonal: RCR Triune buffs add 50% - therefore DR. Can help solo in good spots - in groups they spawn everywhere (allowing you to run more offensive setups)
  • Channeling Pylon does nothing for standard build. It adds CDR. Edit: removed RCR as this doesn’t seem to work!.75% CDR will get your CDR from ~43% -> ~85% --> 30% more damage. And we are back at perma vault with so much RCR
  • a little bit higher wolf uptime
  • Perma vengeance needs ~13 Gogok stacks in standard variant - even without one hit vengeance would be off for less than a second with CC3.
  • If you have some nice Fire or Phys gear - with ~50% RCR it’s easy to use without struggling with hatred management
  • If you run with CoE and no elusive you can snapshot the LpK potion, as you need to press Shadowpower just once in a GR
  • more forgiving if you miss or hit a wall - as hatred costs of impale are kinda low

Defense
That’s the big caveat here. Because standard S6 is “punching above its weight”. It will get better with more augments/paragon, though. Losing defense might be counter productive - even if you get more damage instead. So offensive variant without elusive won’t work from the get go.

There are some things to solve that:

  • Paragon + Augments
  • Defensive gem (Esoteric, Moratorium, …?)
  • Passives (Ambush to Leech/Perfectionist)
  • Wolf -> Boar (damage loss!)
  • Defensive item rolls
  • Paragon stat allocation (putting some points into vit).

In the end we have to make sure, that we don’t lose to much offense to make the CC3 option pointless. You gotta figure out what works for you here.

Movement
No perma vault - but doable with ~50% RCR. Discipline roll on Quiver/Weapon helps.
But S6 is pretty fast without it - as we get 30% more movement speed from Shadow Power.

Skipping the empty effing levels won’t work as as nice as with the standard variant, though.

Variants

  • Fresh starter variant: Run Elusive instead of CoE. Maybe a little less damage (not much though ~ 43% vs 50% CoE) - but you’ll get DR on top, so low 100s are easy to do.
  • It’s possible to use Flavor of Time (drop CoE, run RorG). As CC3 means you profit from all Pylons, including Channeling Pylon - it might work very well. Have seen some people use Flavor of Time in seasonal leaderboards at the lower end (~ rank 900) - don’t remember their ring choices, though. None of themseemed to use CC3, though.
  • In “normal” groups (not talking meta here) - CoE variant will work - as there are RCR Triune circles everywhere - and you can support with Nems.
  • For meta RGK CC3 variant is weaker than Aughild, no WH and “useless” bracers slot (but Lacunis are possible - missing the 50% CHD). However you’ll get way more defense in season - as triune circles are everywhere - and “meta” can mean 120 or 150 NS with 4k+ paragon. It’s not completly useless there - just less damage. Still more damage than in standard variant. But a Channeling Pylon at the boss (with Flavor of time?) might help

Disclaimer

  • Just a variant - haven’t done intensive NS tests here
  • This ist no 120+ Build thread! Mostly theorycrafting + some seasonal solo+ publics tests. Currently running Elusive instead of CoE. Have no GR XXX to show/prove! -> Just food for thought!
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Hey, a nice meaty post – thanks Kinder.

I used CC3 / S6 to try for the FoK + Impale Hybrid, it wasn’t very effective. Too much defense loss and the FoK damage was outmatched by Impale.

A full Impale setup is pretty cool for S18 – lots of little perks, better damage than standard build and the version without CoE would work well for paragon 800-1500 and speed farming.

I was able to get Aughild to work well without Elusive ring, and i see others succeeding even without massive phys resist rolls w/ Esoteric Alteration. Higher paragon is a requirement too – I guess it is something to work towards at the end of season.

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Thanks Kindergarten, your explanation shows why Elusive worked better for me than CoE when I was testing S6/CC.

I wish they’d of started a new Era with this patch so we could more accurately follow what people are doing post-patch.

Losing Chain of Shadows made S6 feel kind of like running M4/N6. I may have to spend some time seeing which is more powerful for me :slight_smile:

Thanks for the write up, hella lot of information there.

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Channeling pylon works differently for RCR. It effectively makes skills cost 0 resource but doesn’t actually add RCR. For CDR it adds 75% CDR so that it can be a bump in damage (around 30-40% depending on your CDR) but not much in comparison to a Power Pylon.

Additionally, Channeling Pylon resets all abilities with a cooldown to be off cooldown with the exception of charges (e.g. Sentry, Dashing Strike, and a few others). For charge-based skills, while the pylon doesn’t reset them instantly, it does grant infinite use of them provided you have at least 1 charge (the charge cooldown is set to 0).

Empowered shrines grant 50% CDR and +100% primary resource generation, so these shrines also don’t affect your toughness.

Edit: as an additional side note, this variant seems better the higher paragon you go since Dexterity will scale more toughness than damage relative to GR increases. I’ll post a comment about this on the DH forums since it’s a good PSA about why some builds only work with higher paragon.

Also, if more toughness is needed, the Stone Gauntlets provide a smidge more toughness than Aquila’s but it’s not as great since you need to get hit a few times to get up to 5 stacks (during which you might die) and the armor multiplier is additive with paragon +25% and Bladed Armor +40%. At 5 stacks, the Stone Gauntlets will provide up to about 2.5x toughness while Aquila’s will provide 2.0x toughness. I’m just listing this here as another option.

Have been playing in groups with some friends + random dude in season. No chain of shadows seemed more like a feature to me - because you to tend to vault all the time although it’s better to stay with your group.

I did prefer to vault as less as possible in fights before - used it just to get to the next mob. So that’s fine to me (at least for groups).

And these Triune RCR circles are awesome. It’s like invisible Monksupport in groups. We could run CoE+Eso in 115 with just 2 augments. It really works nice for non-meta group play. If you lack defense - you can still use Elusive - damage is still on par to standard build.

And CC3 is just a fun set if you like to min-max, as any gear that is not optimal but comes with RCR/CDR might still be considered.

Correct - did found it out too.

Thought about those - but never found them.

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They’re smart loot for Barbs and possibly Crusaders.

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Grabbed my CC gear off my Seasonal UE and gave it a shot. I have low RCR and Resist All, so used Elusive vs CoE, and cleared a GR higher than my UE. I run mostly solo and vault a lot with S6 to avoid damage so the play style will take some getting used to, but it is a good use of the new gear :slight_smile:

I did a personal new NS-Record, GR 124 (~14 min) , with this new setup, after some trys.
I changed, as suggested, belt and trousers for the CC-Set, changed ring in cube, Topas in Helm, and dropped AD from Shoulders and Hands for RCR.
So i got ~34% dmg and ~47% DR from CC-Set, with 640k Life in GR.
I only add 2 x RCR rolls with Paragon ~3350, worth a try.
https://eu.diablo3.com/de/profile/GRA-2850/hero/73523873

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Seasonal musings:

I needed 4 or 5 augments to make it possible to run with CoE. +2 RCR rolls.
With boar and esoteric.

With pretty average gear (1.9m sheet damage) I tried 110 - wow easy. Got up to 114 - which put me at rank #333. Not many playing DH this season, I guess.
There is a lot of improvement possible.

Wolf, augments, ele damage and maybe take off esoteric - but I won’t get enough paragon in season to do that, I guess.

I personally like Nems more for this build. No perma vault makes it harder to make use of strongarms. Whirlwind dudes can such - another RNG layer - but you can figure it out.

One thought about PE (don’t use it):

PEs damage increase comes via IAS and bleeding enemies around you.
And Bleed last for only 3 seconds!

Unfortunatly Impale doesn’t hit many enemies around us (and they have to crit too). Best way to get the huge IAS increase is FoK while standing in the middle of a huge mob.

In the standard build Fok is available for every 6.159s.
So 3 secs after FoK you fall back to a pretty low IAS buff (~ 5 enemies or so).

With capatin ~5s+ (+CDR circles in season but those are random).

In NS and enough touhness you can switch the FoK rune to Knives Expert - which allows FoK every 3 seconds - so you can keep the IAS buff up all the time.

Costs 30 hatred but just ~15 with captain set. You might lose Aquilas for some milliseconds, though. With maxed hatred via paragon it would be 135/150 which is excactly 0.9 - so with 3 RCR rolls Aquials wouldn’t even drop.

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