We don’t know for certain yet.
In the long run, I suspect that CDR/AD may be the best rolls since hard-cast Rends will proc AD; imagine a scenario with a dense, open Festering, where you Rage Flip 2 screens together, hard-rend, and spin to stack an additional Rend. We’re talking BIG TIME Area Damage in this scenario.
On the other hand, I can see how CDR/%dmg might be the better option.
In short, don’t worry about it until the patch drops and we know for certain, and that will likely take a few weeks of testing on Live.
They’re not supposed to, but if you look at Rage’s test results above, one possible conclusion is that they do, indeed, stack Stricken independently.
In my PTR testing, I paid close attention to the RGs, and I believe–though have not confirmed–that WW and hard-cast Rends are stacking Stricken independently of one another.
Right, and you were getting those from some tables somewhere, right? What I’m saying is that those tables may be inaccurate, for some reason.
Did you read my old post? There I had a weapon with APS of 1.10, and I think had 10% AS in paragon, so that gives 1.21 APS which according to your table should give 1.82 tps. So in that case you’d expect to see a Stricken stack something like once every 30 frames, but I was getting one every 17 frames. Never figured out why. Some folks in China who were testing the same thing apparently arrived at an 8 frame stricken stack, and S4v4g3 theorized that it was because they were using the Dust Devils rune, and the Dust Devils were independently stacking Stricken in addition to the base WW hits (I was using Wind Shear, to avoid running out of fury).
Anyway, all these results are completely at odds with the tables. That’s why I’m saying you should actually test to see what results you get.
Not sure. Maybe in some cases…
Stricken stacks add together, they don’t multiply one another. If you have a stricken that gives +2% per hit, and hit 100 times, you get a multiplier of +200% damage, not +724% damage (i.e. it’s not 1.02^100)
Hard casting Rend should then increase Stricken vs RG for 2H during the cool down of WW stacks.
Wouldn’t this also reduce the gap between 1H vs 2H as it pertains to Stricken stacks against RG?
Well, that’s a very short interval. Gonna be faster Stricken stacking to just keep WWing.
A 2% Stricken will make each hit hit 2% harder than the hit before. The damage you gain per stack is a linear curve. (Like +60 damage each stack)
But your total damage will increase exponentially since each hit after another will hit harder and harder. That is how we can kill rift guardians in the first place.
How often should you hardcast rend to maximize DPS? Every couple seconds?
I see. Then the only appropriate time to hard cast Rend with a RG is if there’s adds so that AD can be procced.
No, each 2% stricken stack will make each consecutive hit 2% harder compared to the starting damage , not to the damage of the hit before it.
The relative value of each Stricken stack diminishes, the more of them you have.
Like, let’s say you’re doing 100 damage. You hit, and stricken is applied. Your next hit will do 102 damage. That’s +2%. Your next hit will do 104 damage. That’s +4% compared to your starting damage, but only +1.96% damage compared to your previous hit. Your hit with 100 stacks will do 300 damage, which is +200% damage compared to your starting damage, but only +0.67% damage compared to the 298 damage you dealt with 99 stacks.
You do indeed “hit harder and harder”, but not 2% harder with each hit.
Well fellas, I’m actually not sure. If you’re rolling with a lot of AD, then in my head it makes sense that you’d actually want to hard-cast Rend as much as possible, especially in high density, provided you remember to WW occasionally to maintain the Wastes (4) buff. That’s assuming you’re dual wielding, and therefore have the necessary attack speed to keep applying Rend fast enough.
With a 2H weapon, I think you’d need some considerable AS on gear to make this strategy work well, or at all, since if you were only hard-casting Rend around 1x/second, you’d be losing the benefit of stacked Rends that you get from Lamentation, and that probably negates the benefits.
All that said, I asked Darkpatator what he thought of the idea, and he was not optimistic about it. For one thing, ceasing WW to hard-cast Rend means no healing from Blood Funnel, which can make you dead pretty quick.
With my 2H testing I’m using LoH on bracers and helm and LpFS on IK belt, BB, and of course Mortick’s. So sustain hasn’t been an use so far least at GR 110.
Sure, but you’re hard casting Rend to gain 114% AD. This could be to our benefit.
Sure. I’m just saying you can probably maximize that benefit by having some AS on your gear.
Yeah sorry that is what I meant and is in the spreadsheet I linked above aswell.
No problem.
If you’ve got time, please do think about running a test to see what 1H vs 2H Stricken stacking rates you find. Like I said, the results may not adhere to the tables, at all.
Edit: never mind. I had a few minutes, and ran it myself.
Short version is that with a 2H weapon (1.00 base APS), I was getting a Stricken stack about every 12 frames (using Dust Devils), and when dual-wielding (2 1H Mighty Weapons, each base 1.30 APS) , I was getting a stack about every 4 frames. That’s some fast stacking!
Easy test would be the toxin gem just using plain WW with no other ability that has a proc coefficient. That means no Dust Devils too. Optimally you want to check that with yellow items and char sheet aps and 2BK swords for the hidden aps buff.
After that you can add another proc coefficient. I would try Slaughter from the WotB bracers and or Dust Devils and see if the Stricken procs alter.
That should show it quite clearly.
Ah, just edited my above post. If you want to run some more detailed trials, I’ll look forward to hearing the results.
IAS doesn’t seem like good trade of for 10% damage or 24% AD, when it would really only benefit during the RG battle.
Clearing the rift faster seems like the better option for 2H.
If you’re going to be hard-casting Rend and running with AD (and AD is the only reason you’d ever want to hard-cast Rend), then you would ideally be spamming it as much as possible in density- any density, not just RG with adds- just making sure to tap WW every 3 seconds to refresh Wastes (4).
I don’t know for sure, but I suspect that Ambo-Rends will overwrite hard-cast Rends, meaning that when you’re going to hard cast, you want to really cast it over and over, giving it time to deal that AD. If you just cast it once and then immediately go back to WW, I don’t think it will do nearly as much good.
So, if you can stay alive, I think a good rotation would be something like:
Tap WW (for less than 1 second) - Rend -Rend -Rend- Tap WW, repeat.
If Ambo-Rend doesn’t overwrite hard-cast Rend, then I think the best rotation would be:
Rend - WW for 1 second - Rend, repeat.
Based on what I’ve seen, they don’t seem to overwrite each other. Here’s how I’ve played it:
I WW to gather density. I never stop WW, I just tap Rend after every second.
Edit: I’ll try to put up a video so you can see what I mean.
PTR is down. I was just going to make a video.
It is a quadratic function. (~ t^2). Exponential is (~e^t) which is clearly impossible.
In other words dps = (1 + t * 0.02 * aps) (it’s additive, not 1.02^(t * APS)). When you integrate, you won’t get exponential.
1 Like