It’s dual hand. We have detailed test and pictures. Also proc scale is 0, not 1. Check datamining. If it is a number greater than 0, it will cause AD. This is a basic mechanic rule. Double check your result when ptr is up.
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Ultimately decisive is what is actually happening in game. If datamining findings conflict with this, we are misinterpreting them somehow, because how it works in game is what matters. Direct evidence is stronger and should be lend more credence than indirect evidence.
So please, if you claim he is wrong or lying, please provide proof by checking it in-game, record the footage and post it here. Then I’m willing to believe you. Otherwise, Occam’s Razor dictates we should believe him over you as long as both remains hearsay.
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bbs.d.163.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=173786843&extra=page%3D5The proc-coefficient I am referring to is for an WW instance to apply Rend. It’s not the proc-coefficient of a Rend instance applied by WW. You are mixing those up.
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Then I simply suggest you don’t call it proc coefficient. Ambo proc Has two effect: apply rend and dealt dmg. As apply rend has a stacking limit, it not always stack. Usually we focus on dmg dealt part.
It’s literally a proc-coefficient. Right now each WW tick applies an autocasted Rend instance deterministically, which equals a proc-coefficient of 1. If it were were a 50% chance, it were a proc-coefficient of 0.5. This is literally what an proc-coefficient does and stands for.
As for Rend not oscillating main and off-hand for damage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZvpk7vWmW8
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Man that is self cast no lamentations. We need Ambo proc rend.
WW oscillates between main and off-hand; hence Ambo’s oscillates. I clarified it now in the initial post.
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Great. I have tested a build based on that. Ambo Main hand sun keeper off hand. Physical WWs. Much better survival.
Sooo Rend DOES benefit from pumping up CHC+CHD ?
I understand that the more attack speed you have, the more Rends could be applied per second, right ?
Well dots can’t crit. But they take the average between a white/crit damage to calc it’s damage. If I’m not wrong.
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Some additional testing this time with Wastes and selfcast Rend:
- Normal Rend calculates with 1100% over 6s (not 5s as tooltip depicts). Timestamp 1:20
- Wastes’ 2PC sets Rend’s duration to 15s. 2PC-Rend calculates with 1100% Weapon Damage over 5s and not 6s. Timestamp 1:50
- Wastes’ 4PC is dynamic and therefore doesn’t snapshot. Timestamp: 2:50
- %Rend damage is a separate multiplier to Wastes’ 2PC and 4PC. Timestamp 3:15
- Rend snapshots Strongarms upon cast. Timestamp 4:10
Wouldn’t be surprised, if selfcast Rend snapshots the entire debuff category. This is the video for timestamp reference:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDEN4GEArgA
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What do you mean by this phrase?
It’s a term that came up with the popularity of Thorns Necromancer, since “DIBS” as a category was too unspecific. I am a main Wizard and not really familiar with Barb multipliers, so let me explain at a Wizard example.
Assume you have a weapon hitting for 100 DMG, 1000 Intelligence:
HIT-DMG = 100 * 1000/10 = 1000
Add Glass Cannon (15% additive), Force Weapon (20% additive), Bane of the Trapped (50% multiplicative), Gem of Toxin (10% additive), Strongarms (30% additive), Audacity (30% multiplicative) to the mix:
HIT-DMG = 100 * 1000/10 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.1 + 0.3) * 1.5 * 1.3 = 34125
In “Weapon Damage Builds” the (1 + 0.15 + 0.2 + 0.1 + 0.3) category was commonly named DIBS and in prior to “Thorns Builds” there was no reason to dissect it further. Assume instead of 100 DMG with a weapon, we now deal 100 Thorns damage with our Wizard:
THORNS-DMG = 100 * 1000/10 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.2) * (1+ 0.1 + 0.3) * 1.5 * 1.3 = 36855
In “Thorns Damage Builds” Toxin, Strongarms and other “additive” debuffs are stacking additively in a separate category. There isn’t really a “common” consensus on what to call those two categories. I often just call the first one “self-buff additive” while the second one is “debuff additive”.
In summary:
- For Weapon Damage Builds:
DIBS = SELFBUFF_ADDITIVE + DEBUFF_ADDITIVE - For Thorns Damage Builds:
DIBS = SELFBUFF_ADDITIVE * DEBUFF_ADDITIVE
A fun fact is that Hack/Invoker Builds are of the first category (those transform their “Thorns” into “Weapon Damage” and then use the “Weapon Damage Build” calculation).
//Edit: here is a video from back in the days when I was testing it (it’s a bit lengthy): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9m2mV29tzg
Is that good or bad?
And in laymen terms, why?
I haven’t tested with Ambo’s interactions yet, will have to do it separately. However, since all damage is applied within 1sec there is hardly a way to get a “huge snapshot” off. So it’s just a “nice to know” thing but nothing you can reasonably apply from my understanding.
Hmm… I hope Ambo and hard casting Rend don’t end up negating or overwriting each other.
It’s super painful to test and I haven’t found a 100% conclusive way to test selfcast vs. autocast overwriting yet. Not sure it’s possible at all without creating a sample size of 100 casts and empirically look at AD ticks. I’ll definitely not be the one to do that 
Thanks for the explanation. I’m gonna stick with “dibs” since we’re not dealing with Thorns damage or, due to our skills, a damage bonus other than the Wastes 4 multiplier that can be shirked (unless Battle Rage expires).
I very much appreciate your test video! Fantastic work!
You’re right. I’ve been thinking about different ways to test, but since multiple Rends don’t produce multiple bleed icons or damage ticks, I don’t know how to do it.
Do we have any idea how Lamentation’s stacked Rends are interacting with Ambo’s?
What I mean is, if you spin into a heap of mobs, Ambo’s will apply an automatic Rend. Is there an ICD before it applies a second? Will it apply a second Rend before the first detonates? Or do you need to hard-cast Rend to apply a second and “cheat” the ICD of Ambo’s?
I suspect it is the latter: You auto-Rend with Ambo’s, then must apply an additional Rend via hard-cast, but I’m not 100% sure.
The video I am referring to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auNcNbXq9gs
I did test this with different attack speed and always had the same outcome: If Ambo’s has an ICD, then it’s dynamic and is always lower than your current WW tickrate. I always got 1 Rend per tick (see vid).
Will it apply a second Rend before the first detonates?
Yes. As you can see in the video.
Or do you need to hard-cast Rend to apply a second and “cheat” the ICD of Ambo’s?
No ICD to my understanding; so no selfcast needed to “get more out of Ambo’s”.
There is still a bit of “magic” happening with Ambo’s that I don’t understand. For Instance, I went into very low FPAs on WW (< 9) and I expected Ambo’s (without Lamentation) to override the current Rend instance every 10 Frames, yielding 0 damage overall (since Rend would’ve been overwritten before ticking the first time). This is a similar issue to LoN Spirit Barrage back in the days (popping Phantasms too early, right before a damage tick happened). However, it didn’t happen (I saw damage numbers). To my understanding this would mean that Ambo’s only applies an “Rend instance” if the maximum cap is not reached yet, but I am not 100% on this.
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