No that is not what I said.
I’m suggesting that underperforming builds, when recently buffed to the level of normality, scare Blizzard and they react with knee jerk changes.
Crusader, Wizard, DH, and WD all have builds in the 135+ range right now. Rend is at the same level now and Blizzard is historically bad at reacting to Barb solo clears.
There is nothing wrong with stating actual results. If one build magically clear GR140 at 1k paragon every other class would be complaining. You want balance but complain when data is stated that describes how balanced we are? That makes zero sense Pro. Either you want balance or not.
My point is that since historically Barb has been so bad, giving it one or two builds that can do 130+ like Vyrs can will seem out of the ordinary. But it should not be.
A 132 might seem high but it’s really not. It only seems good because Barb has historically had to push like crazy with tons of paragon to do 132, and 132 is a joke for other classes that actually have damage.
So you need to be careful to give Blizzard scary, sudden, and out of context data because historically they don’t look at data in context. That is the problem.
Remember when they nerfed WW many patches ago? Someone did a 118 with recently buffed WW many patches ago and Blizzard got scared. In that same patch they nerfed Ww and 118 turned out to be a joke in that patch cycle. So their buff was an overreaction and not warranted. That nerf stands to this day (10,000%).
Hiding data doesn’t help blizzard balance the classes it only hinders it. Blizzard should have targets for what they want people to clear at a given paragon. Also, they have way more data than you expect. They can look at how much time a person has logged into PTR, how many keys they used, which GRs they opened, ect… There really isn’t much that cannot look at, they don’t rely on the leader board strictly for balancing data.
People at Blizzard are going to look at the PTR leaderboards as well as the other data relative to the number of players testing each class that will obviously schew the data and create sampling bias.
In the table below, I have included a coloumn with notes. As you can imagine, there are most likely more barb players participating in this PTR than ones where they had no item updates. The median of the current non-season solo barb non-season leaderboard is 126. The current median of the top 10 solo clears as of now on the PTR are:
| Class | Median of Top 10 Solo Clear (Non-Season) | Notes |
|---|---|---|
| Barbarian | 130 | New Patch2.6.7 Supporting legendaries |
| Crusader | 125 | New Patch 2.6.7 Set and supporting legendaries |
| Demon Hunter | 124.5 | No new items |
| Monk | 121 | New Patch 2.6.7 Set and supporting legendaries |
| Necromancer | 125.5 | Nerf to BoneRinger/Thorns |
| Witch Doctor | 129.5 | No new items |
| Wizard | 133 | Nerf to Chantodo |
Felix they have no idea how many keys were used for a particular clear or even what the layout was. Only the clear.
If you think the D3 server keeps track of how many keys were used for a particular clear on all clears ever done I got news for ya.
Think about it. I used 5 keys for a 128 Seismic Slam clear to make a video if I remember correctly. I could have exited that map for any reason including a power outage.
Or I could have used 1000 on DH then changed to Barb and spent 10 and cleared. There’s no way for code to correlate which keys I used on which class with what build and which resulted in a clear.
Also, inspection of the barb leaderboard show a homogenization of sets used and items. Although this is attributed in part to a bias in testing Spin to Win, it certainly is noteworthy. Considering the more modest buff to other builds, I wonder if things stay as there are, if barb intraclass parity will suffer relative to what it was.
Can anyone explain the season leaderboard clears on PTR? 700ish Paragon clearing 110+ in like 7 mins? With really sub par gems/items?
Arch, the game runs off a server. Blizzard can diagnose everything because they have all the information. The leader board is a simple parse of some of the data they collect. If they wanted to know how many keys a player has used on PTR it would probably take 2 minutes to write the script if they don’t have it already. I don’t know all the scripts they have but they can write a script for anything and it is very little work.
Keys used in a PTR, yes.
Keys used to attain a clear with a particular build, no. Blizzard isn’t going to store variables about which keys you used with every possible item combination.
Fair point to an extent, it all depends on how through the person writing the script wants to be. It would be no more difficult to write the script for key spent per GR level as it is for key spent for the whole PTR.
They could also write a script only to parse keys, gr level with specific gear.
You can get as detailed as you want.
Yes but unfortunately a lot of trolls use this opportunity. Remember plowing 125 s**t? Same old story. I am against pushing in PTRs. Nothing is wrong with testing and reporting.
Yes of course but I don’t believe they are going to write a script that generates tons of tables with hundreds (thousands?) of permutations tied to what you tried each key, which build, which items, which rift, which boss, and then output those results for each key for each player?
I don’t believe they have that or have ever had it nor can they actually generate that with their current approach to the game.
Script for total keys used in PTR or on live? Sure. Script for specific data about what each key ever spent did and was ran with? Hell No. Especially not a table with matches on repeated attempts with same exact item / skill combination.
Servers can’t even handle area damage they’re never going to handle millions of permutations recorded every second on an infinitely expanding database.
Another bad thing is, there are many non barb main players push so hard. These players want barb die.
There are players who like all of Diablo and all classes. And there are players who like one class. The players who like one class are usually the top 100 players. And sure it’s fine to tell the top 100 players in your class what to do.
However, it’s really hard to tell the thousands of casuals of your class not to push leaderboards. When casuals like me can get GR124 with non-optimized gear and 19K STR and hour of playing and 10 rift keys compared to a fully augmented Vyrs pre-nerf 25K INT and 150+ keys to get a GR125, you’re going to have a really hard time hiding how well Rend is doing right now.
Well I am an engineer and a programmer and I tend to think a lot like other engineers/programmers.
I generate these tables for data we collect on silicon produced in our fabs. I can generate tables on any permutation that you can think of because I have all the data.
If I wanted to balance sets, I would be parsing data specifically for sets to compare against one another at similar paragon, using approximately the same number of keys. If I wasn’t concerned with balance, there would be no such script.
Its not hard to write the scripts, it just takes time and it has to be a priority. I don’t know what the level of priority is at blizzard or how many people are working on it but it is definitely doable.
Yes but that’s because you have all the data to work with.
I don’t believe D3 servers are generating billions of table entires to record the data you’d need to run the kind of script I’m thinking about.
The data is not there because it’s not being recorded in the first place. Meaning every key every player has used since the game launched is a mystery, especially if you’re looking for data about which key corresponds with which items the player had, LET ALONE how many keys that player had to use with the same exact items to clear a specific level.
I’m happy to be proven wrong but I don’t think that even Challenge Rifts are based on the entirety of the game’s rifts ever opened. That’s why Challenge Rifts are based on something someone cleared.
We actually don’t want a op build. But currently, I don’t think rend is as op as pre-nerf chant. As I said before, although ambo-rend have 10+ wws dps, but ambo-rend has small radius. It’s like you put all WWs dmg inside a small disk. If you compare the overall dmg (with a large group of mobs), rend overall dmg is relative close to 2-3* WWs dmg (WWs have more than 20 nados). Ambo solves the bad proformance of Waste set in mid-top GR fishing.
This is a really great buff. Thought the final number may be changed. The mechanic is welcome.
Provide screenshots showing this. Only a handful of 110 clears that are under Para 1500 let alone 700 in 7 minutes.\
EDIT: found it on Seasonal, isn’t quite as you stated, Almost 800 para, all but 2 items Ancient and 2 Primals including a weapon. Gear was all ideally rolled for what he was doing. Only thing truly low were gem levels, but several other classes can hit GR 100 with level 25 gems.
I’ll checkout other options, for sure. This was using existing gear with new cube options. I do like the dr and damage boost from crimsons, though.