Rapidfire Build (And Natalya Set)

I know this is a long post. Just read the bold parts, and you won’t miss anything other than supporting details.

At the moment, rapidfire is a useless skill. With mobility and survivability being extremely important, a skill that makes you stay stationary and vulnerable isn’t particularly useful, especially when it doesn’t even make up for its weaknesses by killing faster. It doesn’t help that the only DH set that can be used with it is the Natalya set, which buffs all damage output. The rest of the sets have specifically omitted Rapidfire. So the player can either use the Natalya set, or no set at all.

By using the Natalya set, the player is forced to either give up a weapon affox, or give up a ring affix, in order to wear the set (either by using a Natalya’s Reflection or a Ring of Royal Grandeur). With weapon and ring affixes being some of the best in the game, that is a huge sacrifice to be made, all because the set doesn’t include pauldrons. That allows the player to use the Mantle of Channeling, which increases damage dealt and reduces damage taken by 25% once the player has been channeling the skill for 1 second. This helps, but it’s nowhere near enough protection for someone who only has one ring slot left. They absolutely need an Oculus Ring since they’re standing in place, a Convention of the Elements is mandatory for anyone trying to put out real damage, and an Elusive Ring is an integral part of any DH build that intends to survive, which is very needed on a Rapidfire build. The player is now forced to choose whether they want their Rapidfire build to actually kill anything, or if they want to survive so that they can actually use their ability. They also can’t make good use of the Demon Hunter’s Wraps of Clarity to make up for their lack of an Elusive Ring, because the legendary weapon for Rapidfire forces them to remain channeling for a longer duration to make proper use of its buildup to 30 stacks of damage bonus. They don’t get to use their primary skill every 5 seconds unless they want to give up almost all of their damage output. Here are my solutions to this:

Make the Natalya’s Reflection ring automatically roll with Reduces damage from Ranged attacks by 25-30% as a secondary affix. This affix makes sense for the ring’s name, and makes sense for DH playstyles even when they aren’t using rapidfire, as they ideally would want to avoid getting hit by melee attacks, but would inevitably get hit by some ranged attacks. Fixing this item isn’t just for Rapidfire; this is for the Natalya set in general, so players aren’t losing quite so much to equip a Natalya’s Reflection (although 30% less damage from Ranged attacks still doesn’t compare to the Legendary Rings available, I just wanted it to be some kind of bonus).

Adjust “Wondrous Deflectors” as a wrist item with a legendary affix of “Gain 15% damage reduction per second while channeling, up to a maximum of 60%.” This has to be stronger than the Wraps of Clarity’s 40-50% because it forces the player to be immobile and the bonus is lost the moment they stop channeling rapidfire to get moving or stop channeling strafe to fire a primary and keep their momentum up. Strafe builds would almost certainly prefer the Wraps of Clarity for a buff that is easy to keep up at full strength 24/7, but they’d still have the option to use these Ranger’s Deflectors if they wanted to, if only so they feel like they got to choose which bracers they have equipped. Mainly these would be intended for Rapidfire builds that have no other bracers they can make good use of.

The end result of this will be that Rapidfire users will be significantly more vulnerable than a Strafing GoD DH until they’ve been channeling for 4 seconds, at which point their pauldrons and their slightly tougher bracers will have them modestly tougher. They’ll still have to get up and move when a bunch of enemies come their way, but maybe they’ll finally be tough enough for an Esoteric Alteration gem (also sacrificing damage output) to enable them to stay put and channel while the inevitable enemy DoT’s cover the ground under their feet.

The base ability itself also needs its various damages increased. It forces you to stay put and channel. It should at least do more damage than skills that enable you to keep moving around. It deals the same damage as Strafe, which lets you move around quickly and is just as easily sustainable when using its own GoD set. That’s absurd. Why would anyone Rapidfire while standing still when they can Rapidfire in all directions while quickly moving around? The damage of Rapidfire should be increased from 685% up to 800%. Yes, that makes it just a tiny bit stronger than Impale. What’s wrong with that? Impale lets you keep moving, and strafe doesn’t. Besides, the various runes on Impale will still make it more damaging than Rapidfire. The damage of the Fire Support ability should be increased from 145% up to 165%. The radius of the Bombardment rune should be increased from 8 yards up to 10 yards and its damage modestly increased from 545% to 560%. It’s currently lower than the Strafe’s 9-yard grenades. As an ability that forces you to be stationary, its explosive variant should have more coverage to be used to protect you from packs of enemies. The Withering Fire rune should reduce the initial Hatred cost to 5, rather than 10, like I believe it did at one point. Think about what it’s competing with. A player is dedicating a skill rune to this. They are giving up the other choices. They should at least be rewarded with the ability to pack up and move and shoot somewhere else. Even if they used it to move regularly while using rapidfire, they can’t shoot while moving and they’re already giving up a lot of damage output. On top of that, the rune already doesn’t work well with their weapon that forces them to stay put and charge up. So just let it do its original job by nullifying the startup cost.

The Wojahnni Assaulter could also stand to have an adjustment added to it so that the “Withering Fire” rune can actually have its place in a rapidfire build. It should have some effect added to its ability: “The Withering Fire rune causes Rapidfire to instead begin channeling with 35 stacks and degenerate while channeling to 0.” That doesn’t mean players can use Withering Fire and just run&gun with full damage output. They’ve got to stop attacking to bring their stacks back up to 35, and they give up channeling bonuses to do so, but at least it enables them to use Withering Fire the way it was intended.

The Taeguk also needs adjustment. The way it is now, it only gives its bonuses when you spend resource on a channeled skill. With the Rapidfire quiver removing the channel cost which was already low and easily sustained in the first place, it prevents players from utilizing the Taeguk which builds up damage and armor over time while channeling, something that would work well with Rapidfire and was probably originally intended to be used with it among other skills. Adjusting the Taeguk to be “When you use a channeled skill”. Yeah, that risks players also using it to benefit channeled primary skills. Is that really so bad? If you are worried about that, another option is adjusting the Sin Seekers quiver to reduce the channeling cost of Rapidfire to 1, rather than 0.

I don’t expect these changes to be enough to bring a Natalya Rapidfire build up to par with a GoD Strafe build, but I don’t think the developers ever intended for it to be on par, anyway. I’m only asking for it to at least be restored to a usable level. With all of these buffs, I believe the player’s maximum potential with this build would leave them dealing a just a bit more damage and having a bit more toughness than a Strafe build, while having severely impaired mobility. That’s if they take full advantage of all benefits available to them, including Bombardment with a Hellcat Waistguard. More buffs might still be necessary after this, but it’s better to undershoot and go the rest of the distance later than to overshoot and try to back up.

Did something get nerfed on rapid fire? I remembered my old LoD rapid fire being pretty darn tanky sitting in place. Just had to watch cooldowns for buffs.

Lol nope. The OP has just recently discovered the “post thread” button and cue the clueless gum-flapping.

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How did that build compare to a GoD with Strafe, though? With a GoD build, you can end up dealing more damage and moving significantly faster than normal while not having to stop to attack at all, let alone not having to stay put entirely just to build up damage. With GoD, you can still build your in-combat toughness up to comparable levels, all while also being free to move rapidly out of harm’s way without even ceasing your attacks.

This is not a “Waaa buff my build everyone else is better” post. I use the GoD set. This is about bringing more options to the table for everyone to choose from in a game that was supposed to be about letting players quickly and conveniently change their build, hence the whole Skill Rune system.

Being able to use rapidfire against enemies in GR100, or using GoD against enemies that are quite literally 50-500x stronger in higher level GRs, is a big difference.

There is really only one option for DHs right now. They’re limited not just to one set, but are even limited to only one viable way to deal damage with that set. If you’re a support DH you have more options, but if you’re trying to deal damage, there’s really only option. When you use rapidfire, you give up all movement. You stand in place, in a game where speed is everything. For doing that, you ought to be able to dish out more damage than any of the other options available to you. Otherwise, what are you trading your mobility for?

Don’t know, I literally see 99% of the players using GoD Which translates into 99% of the LB being GoD…if there was more players using older builds then you would see more diversity on the LB.

This is the problem with others looking at the classes which had their new sets optimized better than others. Wwrend is now being targeted by nerf enthusiasts showing all the high clears yet, there are other builds that if pushed by barb mains, would come with just a few GR difference…but it’s the new hot build with a huge following for spin to win so there’s tons and tons of players only pushing that build…

Crusader…I ranked using LoD blessed again this season…look on the LB and tell me how many LoD you see compared to AoV? DH is GoD, monk is their new set, necro is the new LoD build…it’s what’s new. I bet you there is multiple of DH mains on here That if forced to play rapid fire to make a point, they could get quite a ways up there.

Let’s say GoD can do 145-150, if someone pushed rapid fire and got to 140-145, you would still be on the LB in a good spot. Now is rapid fire as strong as GoD? Heck no. Is it as mobile? Pfft, no. Look at the top WD build, it’s a snails crawl for mobility comparably.

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If you can show me someone who pushed GR145 with a rapidfire build, I’ll be happy to be wrong. Personally, I think rapidfire and other stand-in-place channeling abilities should be THE most effective builds in terms of damage output, considering that you literally cannot move while you’re doing it. If there is anything else that does more damage, why would anyone want to cement their feet in place for no reason? Why trade your ability to move for not a single advantage in return? And when I say they should be THE most effective, I’m not saying they should be obscenely overpowered. It should just be noticeable that you are doing a bit more damage than other options.

The top WD build might be a snail’s crawl compared to Strafe, but Rapidfire is a snail’s crawl compared to the WD build. You don’t get much slower than not moving at all and having to stay stationairy for 30 stacks of casting just to get your damage up to decent levels. The WD has some similar stand-and-channel abilities that I like as well.

And has yet to discover the meaning of brevity. Not every post needs to be college thesis length.

Has yet to discover that legendary gems have no effect on followers, also.

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I did discover that, I just leave the gems on them so I can imagine how they would function if the gems worked. I like to hope beyond reason that some day they will be allowed to use Legendary gems. Followers don’t need damage or health, anyway, I have “Cannot die” tokens on them all. The only thing they need are affixes on the items that provide support, along with attack speed and cooldown reduction, which all of their items have where possible. Swapping the sockets out for primary attribute, vitality, or crits, wouldn’t achieve anything because they cannot die and they can’t really kill anything either.

It takes words to adequately say everything that I want to say, and I’m not going to censor myself by chopping off most of it just because you’ve gotten used to short bites. My posts may be long, but it still only takes a minute to read them. If that’s too much for you, then don’t read them and don’t reply. You don’t have to. There is no short way to say what I have to say. I think fast, I type fast, and I have a lot to say. Go ahead, say “No you don’t”, I know you’re dying to.

People have a tendency to break everything down and seek any angle of attack, so I give plenty of description in advance. That way, you know everything I have to say about the subject and you can address anything you disagree with. Then we can talk about that, and get it over with. Then everything that there is to be said has already been said in a few long posts in the beginning, instead of it unraveling throughout a hundred short messages. Maybe you don’t think it’s worth reading. Then don’t read it.

That makes zero sense.

A large portion of readers tend to skip walls of text. Short and to the point is more effective.

You cut out the part where I explained that it would make zero difference if I switched the sockets out for a different affix or put a normal gem in the sockets. They’re followers. They don’t need anything for damage or survivability. Once they’ve got attack speed and cooldown reduction on everything, that’s all they need. What would I replace it with? Bring their toughness up even though they cannot die? Bring their damage up even though they can’t kill a fruit fly on Torment I? So I might as well leave the legendary gems in just in case they ever become usable. I already figured the gems probably wouldn’t work when I leveled them up. I also figured worst-case-scenario I level the gems up even more and Kanai Cube them. No time wasted.

I don’t need everyone to read what I say. If 60 seconds to read it is too much effort, then they probably wouldn’t put much effort into giving me constructive criticism, either. I don’t make these posts to get as many likes or comments as possible, I make these posts to fully outline what my suggestion is and why it’s needed, on the off-chance that maybe some day one of my suggestions will inspire good change or additions to the game.

I also write these comments as they come to mind. On rare occasions I’ll take time to cut them down, but writing a page takes five minutes and shortening that page into half of a page without losing any of the information takes an hour. I’m not going to spend hours on a few comments just to save a few readers thirty seconds when most of them don’t care what I have to say anyway. This isn’t my job, this is freestyling. If thousands of people were reading it, then maybe I would spend 3,600 seconds of my time condensing it, because sixty seconds of a thousand people’s time amounts to more and starts to take priority. But as that is not the case, I’ll continue writing as I do, and using Bold to highlight the key details so that the TLDR crowd can skip along at will.

Before I came back to this game I actually like using Rapid Fire to level my DH and hoped that one day they would do something about that. Of course when the did, I am using an account dedicated only to the Barbarian, my favorite class.

But I have seen LoN Rapid Fire builds and they look like they can dish out some hate, but they don’t seem to be as strong as say the Impale DH. I really don’t know too much about the new DH set. I tested it out in PTR for a little bit, but really didn’t like it all that much. It seemed like it was a DH version of combining WW/Rend and Frenzy, with range capability of course.

DH build depend highly on prefered play style. Rapid fire is not for those who want to be fast…blast a mob take a few steps blast another etc…perhaps stop to doge and incoming attack. Using grenades and that nifty belt that bounces them for 800% damage with a LoN or LoD build can be quite tanky and do well, though will not zip through GR 90 in 3 minutes or less.

Those who like fast movement now have GOD…above GR90 and you simply spend more time trying not to run into anything because your dead if you do. HA and 9th satchel with Dawn and VB seem to be the favored items…Fortress ballista a close second.

Those that prefer a more melee approach seem to like the impale builds…I have not really played this build accept at lower levels as II was collet GoD gear but with Karlie’s and HPS and a shadow set it can dish out the damage.

Another favorite of course is UE…I have not gotten the MS build to work with how I like to play, but I see many that have.

I think many need to re-adjust they play to fit their own goals and play for fun. Its not like you get anything nice for being in the top 10 or top 100. There is no prize. If your goal is to push GR 140…then select the best build for your play style and go for it…not just for DH but any class.

Play for fun and create your own build and do not get yourself stuck on what some other person says your build should be (no offense to icyveins and others who spend a lot of time researching builds) Its much more fun that way…take a build that no one else is using and see how far you can go

I don’t prefer the strafe build. It’s fun for speedrunning bounties, but doing GRs with it is dull and repetitive. Sadly, it’s the most effective build for higher difficulties.

I much prefer a build centered around Rapidfire or Impale. Those are the kinds of builds I used to use years ago, not because they were the most effective but because that’s how I wanted to play. Back then, the difference between one build and another at maximum capacity wasn’t that huge, and I could suffer the difference for the sake of having more fun. Now, the difference is so major that I feel forced to use the GoD set. I still work on my rapidfire and impale builds anyway, and they’re getting better, but even with superior item quality they’re not keeping up with my GoD builds.

Sounds like you need to wait a patch or two. We’ve been told multiple times that after the new sets have been released, they’ll focus on balance.

Then you can play whatever your heart desires instead of baiting the usual angry boys on here :wink:

Alright, that’s not so bad. I figured they just wanted the new sets to shine for a while, but I think it’s time to balance already.