a far better way is to implement SSF LBs…problem solved.
yes it was. Compare paragon solo vs group, solo can’t compete…as an example, earlier this season, I spent an hour with 2 mates doing 3 man GRs, nothing fancy, just a bunch of 3 man GR90s and 2 GR95s…I got 60 paragon points for my efforts. For an hour. There’s no way, as a solo player, I can get that sort of paragon, that quickly. Adjusting this for the season entirety, this is why we see 4 man group players getting north of p4500 and solo players struggling to get to p2000. And those solo players have invested a lot more time into the game I might add…
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Still requires a completely separate game mode. Not as simple as adding a leaderboard. Not sure why some of you don’t get that.
Actually that’s complete horse pucky.
Last season, playing DH and using the starter build, I was soloing GR90s right away, and earned over 200 Paragon in an hour solo. I went from around Paragon 110, to Paragon 600 in less than 4 hours of play time. Completely Solo.
So yes, its completely possible. However, the ability to farm up Paragon that fast when you are over 800 Solo gets a bit slower, and yes groups make this much faster.
Game on.
and that was exactly my situation. I was like p700 or so…my point was, at the time, with the gear that my character had (being early on in s20), for me to do a solo GR90 was around 8 mins. 3 man GR90 was 2.5 minutes. Do the math - over 3, nearly 4 times the amount of GR runs for the same time period. Bonus is that the XP earned from the 3 man GR90 was probably double to trip what I’d earn for doing the same thing solo…
A very good solo player, who really GRINDS for an entire season, may hit p2000…if that. Compared to what, p4500+ via group play…usually for less time invested too. Solo players can’t compete on what is meant to be solo LBs cos group players do their solo runs with benefits earned via group play…that’s rather unbalanced.
But still, why play solo if getting paragon for you is so important.
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Some people prefer to play solo and compete from there. I’m one of them, though you won’t see me complaining about the disparity between solo and group play, not by much anyway. I don’t mind group play when I’m playing mmo or other games. But somehow games like Diablo, I prefer solo, probably becauae I want to progress, take my time in my own pace.
Both arguments have merit, which I won’t specifically lay out here. I just don’t know what’s the best solution (and relatively easy one to implement) to approach this.
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- exp requirements for higher levels grow, so the amount of actual levels gained doesnt scale linearly with time, meaning someone playing solo is able to catch up to a certain degree and be closer than it would appear based entirely on the advantage group gives
- mainstat advantage based on paragon levels is added on top of existing equipment, so it is greatly diminished on lower levels (ie. difference between 3k paragon and 4.5k paragon is 7500 mainstat on top of around 30k mainstat 3k player will already have, which is barely 25% damage increase in damage regardless of 50% advantage in levels)
Taken this into consideration, the real advantage coming from paragons is much lower than some people might think it is.
If I were to guess why you dont have 2k paragon players competing for top spots, the real reason is most likely that anyone dedicated enough to try to compete simply has no reason to handicap themselves by playing solo, and solo purists are not dedicated or skilled enough to actually be able to compete.
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each team on 4 player leaderboard in europe has 150 clear
Oh really? Are you complaining about the difference in XP gains in a game that is clearly focused on MP? Also, what’s wrong with you playing in groups? Do people do RAT’s, play META, do they put any effort into it, and can’t they be rewarded? If you insist on going inefficiently, you shouldn’t complain.
Let me correct you, even if you play SOLO, you, after one season, would not only have 2k paragon, you definitely are not doing the right thing here as you say.
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I am not one. I want better balance for the game and criticize the arguments for those who say: “Only buff, never nerf”, because it leads to trivialization of group content.
True, but 2k vs 4.5k is still a massive difference. You can try and paint it any way you like, but it doesn’t change the truth of the matter.
Remember, paragon/mainstat not only increases DPS but also toughness and recovery, and the latter 2 really do allow you to push another few GRs over someone with lower paragon.
not skilled enough …lol…or perhaps, despite how you’ve tried to spin it, paragon is a massive advantage…
please show me where on the box it says “clearly focused on MP”.
oh wait, it doesn’t and it NEVER has.
I know I know. My comment was a generalised comment. Most group players are really happy with the power creep…some of us would rather see the game balanced…
imo - what would be a good idea as far as leaderboards goes. Divide them up by 6 piece bonus. They already have a system to detect this in ‘set rifts’. That way you and everyone can see what set’s are doing good vs what are doing bad. The only other way around this is to spend hours in the current leaderboard looking at the top 100 of players in each class…
If you really need someone to show you this, there’s definitely something wrong here …
If its taking me 8 minutes to clear any rift, I’m going too slow. If I want to fast chain clear rifts, I aim for the 4-5 minute mark. Last season that mark was around GR95 near the end of the season.
Keep in mind, I don’t burn through the season in a weekend. I take my time. Anyone looking at my profile can see that I take my time. But that’s me.
Right now I’m burning through GR30ish levels in less than 4 minutes. (leveling gems) and keep raising the levels as the gems go up. Once I hit that point where its taking more than 5 minutes, (if I haven’t found more optimal pieces for this build) I will have to spend time doing runs at that sweet spot till I do.
Have to agree with that.
What the hell does the box have to do with how the game evolved?
Yep.
My thoughts:
Do I agree that high level Paragon players have an advantage?
Yes.
Do I think that they get that unfairly?
Some may. Some may not.
Do I think having a limit on Paragon will make a difference?
No, not really, and let me explain why. I think I briefly commented about top players are more than likely still going to be top players, regardless of caps, limits etc. The reasoning behind this is simply that top players are those that have spent the time learning the best ways to make the most efficient use of their time clearing rifts, earning paragon, etc. They are the most likely ones to see at the top of the boards due to their experience at min/maxing their gear, knowing how to make the builds work the best, and knowing how to deal with types of monsters, rifts, maps, etc.
Those of us that either don’t break into Paragons above 1500-2000 EVER in a season are far less likely to be able to still gain a top leader board without a bit more luck on our side. Skill matters yes, but so does experience.
Personally I have no desire to be on top the leaderboard. Don’t care if I finish a season with 2000 paragon or 200, or 20.
My thoughts?
Lets have ONE season with a paragon cap. Why the hell not?
Lets see what happens. Will it shut anyone up? I doubt it. Will there being lots of complaining? Probably.
Will it make a difference in the leaderboard? Don’t know. It might. But more likely it might not.
Anyway.
Game on.
The point was that its easy to calculate how ‘massive’ it is, and when done it kind of proves its not as massive as some people think.
That being said, as demonstrated literally dozens of times every time a thread like this pops up, if you’re further behind the top players than simple math shows you should be, the problem is you, not them.
The box has never said mp only…stop lying and implying. It says 1-4 players. That implies solo AND group mp.
Agreed, but this is very early on in the season, without high gems or augments or high paragon.
True. But - and this is where paragon causes issues, there are a LOT of players ranking higher than they should, based on skill level, on the solo LBs, SOLELY because of high paragon earned from group play. They are taking spots away from more talented and skillful players who play solo, and lack the paragon to compete.
Limiting paragon will sort the men from the boys and allow skillful, solo players with lower paragon to earn a place on the LBs that befits their skills. That’s true competition in my eyes. Many group players are scared crapless of sinking on the solo LBs without the benefit of group earned paragon…
no argument there.
I am confident that it will.
NO. Paragon not only helps with offence, it helps tremendously with defence. For me to do a 119 @ p1200 is a lot more riskier than someone doing it with p2800. That 1600 extra paragon makes a goodly difference in toughness and recovering, making it less dicey (especially in HC).
Which was neve denied. Still the same kind of thing as what I said before, whatever defense advantage you get from mainstat is still compounded over layers of other forms of damage reduction, which are available to you regardless of your paragon, which diminishes value of paragon points.
Understandably you can also trade defense for offense if you have very high paragon, the question is how much exactly you will get out of it. Unless you can demonstrate that using numbers, the advantage is ‘tremendous’ only by your subjective standards.
Which is pure speculation, because you have no objective measure of skill to compare either of those groups.
No, it isn’t. If one has roughly 20k main stat at PL2000, then additional 2500 paragon levels adds only additional 12.5k main stat. That’s not enough to even double the damage output.