Ranged attack vs Dune Dervish = Instant death? Solution?

That’s the spirit! :smiley: Look up the “whirlrend” build if you haven’t already.

Pretty tough to see if they’re spinning or not if they’re off-screen, I’m thinking.

I’m surprised by the thread anyway, as I didn’t realise Seismic Slam was considered a projectile and therefore reflectable.

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Just wait until S22 starts. There’s currently a bug where every class can spawn DH shadow clones and those clones WILL use ranged attacks against anything and everything. So you can be playing your “safe” build with no possible ranged attacks to get reflected, click on a pylon, and die a few seconds later when the DH clone attacks a spinning dervish you didn’t see down the hall. Yes, it’s “a bug”, but Blizzard hasn’t commented on whether or not it will fixed let alone even acknowledge it’s a bug. HC is going to be extra exciting.

True - but them’s the breaks, as they say. Fair trade off for being able to hit things you can’t even see yet.

SOLUTION?

Here is the solution for dune-derwishes:

Run to the hills, run for your lives

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I think you can add Wave of Light - Explosive Light (and possibly other runes) to the list of “pseudo projectiles”. It’s been a good while since I played my monk, but I can distinctly remember getting one-shot out of nowhere when there were spinning dervishes on the scene.

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Wizard Ray of Frost and Disintegrate cause them to stop spinning so they stop reflecting. So they are easy to Kill.

…What’s a wizard?

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NOT JUST RANGE ATTACK!!!

I encounter that with my WW/Rend Barbarian. Ironically, I do not encounter that with Frenzy Barbarian, even though Frenzy tosses out an axe. Maybe the axe doesn’t do enough damage to one shot me as redirected damage, but it should at least hurt me. Right? It doesn’t.

However, when I WW/Rend… my passive pops. In HC that is scary because there are many a trash mob that have that dervish-like ability. If I am not careful with the Act 2 Keywarden, I can get a real death in HC by some pathetic mob (looking at you lil’ blue skinned Devilkin) because my passive popped and I am at low enough health to get jacked if I am not fast enough to potion, regen, or some form of damage mitigation.

My question is WHY? Is it the Rend tick? Does that count as some kind of range attack? It shouldn’t. Right? Is it the actual WW? Wait it can’t be, it doesn’t do enough damage. So what is it? What causes that one shot death or passive pop?

Maybe your dusk devils? They could be considered projectiles

I forgot about that. However, they don’t seem to do that much damage. Then again, that damage could be enough to pwn me and pop my passive.

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Well im guessing you run around with <100 k HP.

Assuming 90% DR a simple 1 Million hit could kill you

Nope. SC, I shoot for the min of 850k and for HC I shoot for 900k. Now granted, when I am gearing up the Barbarian I am around 600-700k. But my damage output isn’t enough for damage reflection to kill me.

For example, my seasonal SC Barbarian has 797k health and is the gearing up phase since my last Barbarian was deleted after I got the conquest that I needed for Guardian. I deleted the Barbarian, like an idiot, because I was going to focus my time on HC only. My non seasonal SC Barbarian has 863k. I don’t care about SC deaths for obvious reasons. But even in full mitigation, the dervish can still one shot me. Hmmm.

This season, I died a bunch of times and only 3 of them were my fault, the rest lag. As it is for many a player. Those 3 that were my fault were all pre 70 during a PL. Yeah. Like I said, my fault. My seasonal HC Frenzy Barbarian has 905k health and my seasonal HC WW/Rend Barbarian has a little over a million health. Again, with the WW/Rend Barb at full mitigation would get one shotted by the dervish. My Frenzy Barb? N O P E!

Dervishes reflect projectile attacks, not ranged attacks. All projectile attacks are ranged, but not all ranged attacks are projectiles. An excellent example would be a DH’s Multishot. Clearly, it’s ranged, but it’s not a projectile.

I have no idea why. I’ve never died to a reflect on my WW/Rend Barb as it doesn’t have any projectile attacks to be reflected.

I’ve definitely killed myself with this on my H90/Frenzy Barb due to the throwing axe - it’s definitely classed as a projectile attack. If you’re not killing yourself with it, try with a lot more damage. :wink:

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is not ranged attack, dune dervish only reflect projectiles, most of them come from demon hunter, like impale or hungering arrow… imm pretty sure barbarians cant die from them because they dont have any projectile based build

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Now I have to go listen to some Iron Maiden. :stuck_out_tongue:

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That album and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son were my 2 favorites back in the day.

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H90/Frenzy makes use of The Undisputed Champion belt, which causes Frenzy to gain all runes. That means, regardless of which rune you put on the ability on your toolbar, Frenzy will include Sidearm…

Sidearm

Each strike has a 25% chance to throw a piercing axe at a nearby enemy that deals 300% weapon damage as Cold to all enemies in its path.

Frenzy’s damage turns into Cold.

The axes are projectiles and as a Frenzy Barb is attacking very rapidly there can be a lot of axes thrown. It’s especially dangerous if the Dervishes have missile dampening as all of the axes are slowed and when the dampening is cancelled (e.g. the mob dies) all of the slowed / reflected axes come back to the Barb in a burst. You can absolutely kill yourself with this.

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Regardless of how Dune Dervish works, one thing is clear to me after doing some Google search:

  • People die without knowing why.
  • People avoid the enemy instead of trying to solve the problem (because there is no solution, or because there is so much confusion around it that it is simply not worth the risk of losing your HC character over it)

It is just a personal opinion, but I think it is not a good design when the only option to win is “not to play.” Someone on Reddit even say that a Whirlwind Barbarian also die mysteriously whenever a Dune Dervish is involved. So my new build is not safe, either. The only way to beat a Dune Dervish is run away like a little child after getting beaten by a bully - teachers can’t help you, mom and dad can’t help you, the bully is 20 years older than you and broken all of your ribs the last time you met him, so what re you gonna do, eh?

The problem is not only tied to single player. When you do speed runs someone will most likely use nemesis on pylons and those will spawn dervishes 90% of time. If it’s a speed GR where our damage combined is enough to take down the elite / pack in a stun duration then go for it, otherwise move ahead and pull more mobs / clear trash etc, not worth to proc cheat death and then most likely die by trying your luck with them.

The problem is that this is auto-death / proc sentence vs projectiles, compared to that the melee version of reflect damage is laughable. If they really wanted both melee and ranged to have some hard counters in elites, make those balanced in terms of power / difficulty.

It’s hard to explain in pug GR why you aren’t dpsing the elite they just popped on pylon, especially when they are mixed with other packs and a bunch of mobs, making it impossible for you to safely dps from any angle.