I don’t know, just thought it might work… not sure if Mirror Images can replicate cc imunity from the gem.
The invigorating gem idea is worth testing. In groups with a Crusader the gem may be unnecessary if the sader is going to run the appropriate law.
Edit:
Nevermind the PTR has ended.
My recommendations for FB set related adjustments based on PTR FB6 MI Push build testing (late PTR):
Recommendation:
- Reduce Firebird DoT on 2pc from 7500% to 4000% = ~4 GRs decrease.
- Tone down Deathwish from 4.25x (325%) to 2.5x (150%) = ~3.38 GRs decrease. This change brings it more in line with non-channeling flame blades version.
- Make Combustion stacks generate slower (perhaps 20-25@1aps), and degen faster (perhaps 3-5/s).
Would be nice for the future:
- Allow channeling skill: AT:FW to proc the FB6 bonus again. That build was a lot of fun optimizing AS/CDR/RCR.
If you prefer the video version, check out:
Fairly happy otherwise! Love the diversity; FB6 proc based design is really nice for not requiring multiplier items, this greatly encourages Hybridization of skills which in turn results in more interesting gameplay. 
4 Likes
Nice. I had no idea you were down from 15 sec to 5 sec MI casts - didn’t realize your CDR was that high. So if your dupes only need to last 5 secs instead of 7, you wouldn’t really benefit from something like obsidian, I was wondering about that. You’ve already got MI off cooldown ready to recast when needed. And enforcer doesn’t have to get dupes to last 7 secs, maybe they last 5 secs without enforcer and you can swap to a dps gem, get another chunk of damage.
Too bad PTR ended without being able to test more stuff.
Also like the nerf ideas - DW is a PIA for balance with such a high multiplier. Even going to extreme and changing DW to only work with LOD builds would be hilarious. That way it doesn’t even work with sets like FB but I guess you have other sets to balance then and it becomes kind of niche.
Prob the ideal change, but Hydra and LoN use Deathwish.
Too fast. Way to fast. I would be okay with a SLIGHT* nerf to stacking speed and degen, because it’s kinda trivial, but there’s a difference between trivial and tedious, and degenering 5 stacks/sec is just ridiculously bad.
2 Likes
Nah leave Deathwish unchanged. Breaking Deathwish will do so much more harm and will last well beyond season boundaries.
1 Like
16/3 is 5.33s. Having a buffer is nice though. Obsidian is still good if you run a shielding setup with EB+Mirror image. That seemed to only work better with ludicrously high paragons though.
Point of no return was pretty good in combination with high life%+VIT to keep the images alive, but it still wasn’t as good as the non-shielding setup with enforcer in my experience.
Haha! I loved the first iteration where there was an actual damage arc and stacks mattered. My recommendation is tame at 100 stacks. Feels like it has no impact at the current generation / degen speeds for the non-channeling builds especially.
Have to start somewhere. They didn’t want to remove Deathwish and instead killed off the more exciting item, Etched Sigil. Lowering the multiplier is our best option at this point.
Even if it decreases the output of other builds, their power level can be adjusted again at the next balance patch.
Assuming FB doesn’t get annihilated in the live patch, what else would you play? LoD Twister and LoD FO are down ~9 tiers from losing the 4th cube slot and won’t use Deathwish in their build anymore. Channeled Meteor went down with Etched sigil.
We have LoD Hydra, I suppose, with a slight lead. TV, Vyr Chantodo, LoD Reverse archon FO, and DMO FO vie for position behind that.
This is a terrible idea. Channeling already does crap damage. Why make channeling even worse for the players who like to use disintegrate or another channeling spell.
3 Likes
My only pain with Nerfing deathwish is that archon variants would become much more valuable. That’s not something I’d like to see. It does need a nerf, but I think Fazulas does too (built into Vyrs that is).
I agree. This diversity is great. I’m slightly against incorporating flame ward in as is though. Simply because it’s too good.
I will say that if they made the proc dmg scale off wpn% of tick everything would be gold. Flame ward dmg would be balanced. Molten impact would hit like a long cooldown skill should, etc… so close to having a game back that wasn’t reliant on having a skill modifier of 1000x. It’s progress though so I’m happy with that
1 Like
I thought the initial iteration was a bit too extreme. Your stacks dropped off very fast, even partway through your fire CoE I’d already lost enough stacks I noticed it in the damage in the second half of fire CoE. Ideally for me it should decay fast enough that you need to actively top up before you hit your fire rotation, but slow enough that you don’t feel the need to top up partway through your CoE.
But I think they went too far in the opposite direction, now you can largely ignore them. I’d like something in between.
E.g. if you lost ~4 per sec from 100, you’d be down to 84 by the end of CoE, which seems reasonable to me. Down 10 per sec to 60 is too much, down 2 per sec to 92 probably isn’t enough.
2 Likes
I hear you and when you say they have to start somewhere I have lots places that are not Deathwish to start with. How about they stop trying to break what is working and fix what is obviously broken, under performing, and/or horribly designed. Trying to “balance” Deathwish around the new Firebird set is terrible. There was no need to break Sigil.
If they want to a place to start fixing things have them start with this:
https://us.diablo3.com/en-us/item/blackhand-key-Unique_Wand_006_x1
1 Like
It is great to hear everyone’s perspective! There are many directions I think they could take this that would have a decent result.
Perhaps my take has been more hard set than is required.
I think we are all in general agreement that the firebird set requires a sizeable nerf (6 to 9 GR? overall) compared to second iteration PTR.
How they go about that and plan for the future is probably out of our hands at this point. It definitely feels good to lay all of these options out as discussion points though.
The mere fact I am being contentious means I care more! Love this community and game. I am excited for the new set. Can’t wait to main wizard again! 
Can’t agree on this one, the current solution is good. My recomendation would be to max the damage bonus to 50 of 100, and the stacks above 50 can work as a time buffer.
Deathwish, there have been many proposals to change this one I like is the one that increases the channeling spells, the to all can be brought lower then. As for the rest of the builds, hydra and twister seem to have one too many support items allready.
Calling for nerfs already? Why? Just let it go live as is. It’s fun, don’t ruin it.
Also, I’m strictly against nerfing Deathwish the way Cratic suggested. That’s exactly what we don’t need, as it would require a retroactive patch to work. You bet, I’ll be extremely pissed if they ever dare to do that and my my primal Deathwish becomes garbage!!
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What really surprises me is how strong some builds are, and how weak others are. Some are ok with solo running 150… some struggle with 130. I don’t understand the balance logic at all. I personally don’t think there should be a solo 145 let alone 150. And I don’t think we should be speedrunning GR 150s. I miss the old smash your face ubers and such.
So nerf it I guess, but not if they’re leaving other builds running 150 solo
They need to tune it around the average player. I do not care what try hards or crazy min/maxers do. If the average player performs about the same as the other classes or sets then it is fine as is.
1 Like
I have no doubt in your intentions. Its just the nerfs don’t fit logic, the in-game reality, or the class fantasy. We are losing the 4th cube slot. It was temporary and seasonal only. Wiz is the only class with 4 different channeling spells, but the devs want to nerf channeling and channeling specific items.
- The Deathwish sword should have been introduced as wand
- Replacing the Blackhand Key wand would have been fine
- The Twisted Sword should have been introduced as a wand
- Slorak’s is still absolutely trash (they may as well save us the trouble and drop 3 souls instead of that garbage)
- Legacy Sigil was fine but didn’t actually buff channeling spells but had value
- The revised Sigil still does not buff channeling spells but at least it still has value
- The Oculus and Primoridal Soul orbs are two good places to put buffs that directly improve channeling.
- Why bother with Primordial Soul orb when OoID gives damage and defense and isn’t limited to a single passive.
The Wiz community is the only sub-group of D3 players that activity try to tone-down and offer nerfs to their class/sets/items out of fear of even bigger nerfs. Does anyone really think the DH community is going to ask for nerfs to Yang’s Recurve or offer it as a nerf target so that they don’t nerf a multitude of other DH sets/items/class mechanics?
Wiz is also the only class caught in the crossfire of complains that are beyond retarded. For example:
- against vanilla Wiz… CM is OP… they have infinite resource… wah… wah… wah… RoS Barb/DH can go about their business slaughtering mobs and remain at full resource the whole time but nobody complains
- against vanilla Wiz… Wizzies freeze everything… I hate it… I don’t want to fight frozen statues… its boring… wah… wah… wah… RoS Necro Frozen Lands literally creates frozen statues, is/was a critical piece of certain 4 man metas but nobody complains
Devs and management need to add value to the dead items. I would much rather have multiple viable options and choose what I want to play within the class versus a predetermined template that the devs impose. For example, we can setup a chain lightning build, but its not end game viable beyond T16 and bounty farming. One might be able to go over GR100 with it but the struggling and pain points don’t start at GR145 with those build variants. We have Camaral, Mykens and StarFire and its still weak. No love from channeling shoulder, DeathWish, Sigil, or the channel belt.
Had the devs opened the FireBird proc to all classes and multiple fire spells it would have added some cross-class synergy and created some unique opportunities. The cross-class synergy could have been the seasonal theme. Whoops. Oh well.
2 Likes
bring back that wiz passive that gave cooldown reduction after critical hits. i cant remember the name… critical mass?
why? cuz it was fun :o
2 Likes
Throwback Tuesday - mirror images in World First Hardcore clear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaDA7GxAtXM&t=485s
Completely unrelated bonus trivia:
“In conjunction with Adventure Mode, the Diablo III team had devised a system called Devil’s Hand that would place fifty-two high-powered enemies throughout the game’s world. Players would be able to kill them all for collectible items in hopes of eventually getting all fifty-two. The Diablo III team didn’t have enough time to get the Devil’s Hand’s collection system in shape, though, so Mosqueira decided to cut it. ‘We figured, we have extra time, but we can’t get both of these right,’ he said. ‘And the really important one is Adventure Mode, because that really changes the way people play the game. So we had to put Devil’s Hand off to the side.’”
Blizzard is notorious for doing balance cycles. They make certain things strong and weak so they can in turn switch things around and say they changed things.
It’s all about keeping the MAU high. People come back to play op builds that have been in the gutter. People also swap classes/builds to the fotm during seasons do they don’t get as bored.
Blizzard will never come out and say this, but it’s the only valid reason for balancing as they do. They have like 1 or 2 favorite things and then cycle through everything else.
Edit: Some builds they just hate and stick in the gutter forever. Like Helltooth WD or Electrocute Wizard.