I can easily make up facts about you too: In fact, I’m seeing you all over this forum whining about zoomer changes that will ruin D2R.
It’s too easy, irrelevant and changes nothing. Please stick to the subject at hand.
Anyway, this isn’t about what you want, and your wild future predictions and falsehoods. It’s what would be good for the game, and for the current market of both die hard diablo fans that Blizzard is trying to restore faith in, and for introducing this legendary game to new players who haven’t played it yet. It is part of an effort to build the playerbase up for D4 as well.
The relevant subjects here are items like player psychology, game theory, and why, from Blizzard’s perspective you think it would be beneficial from them to do this. I started discussing this in the other thread, and it was quickly abandoned by you and others for some reason.
With games these days rising and declining in popularity so quickly, and “day 1 sales” being such a big deal, fragmentation would not help the game. Fragmentation in multiplayer games tends to lead to smaller communities, and reduced engagement over time. It creates segregation and will be confusing to new players, and piss off old players. It would have a negative impact on Diablo 4 sales.
The long term health of the game would suffer, and updating and maintaining 2 or more versions of the game is likely not in VV’s vision for the game. It would split the community and would turn it sour. This has never really been Blizzard’s philosophy either in their other multiplayer games. Maintaining 1 good, official version is best for unification of the community. The devs were great though in that they are making the API for D2R much easier for modders to work with, so there will likely be a great modding community for these extreme changes that some people want here.
Update: Nice Edit you did there too. Maybe you should think before posting next time
Every Diablo discussion right now is about D2R, now you’re just pulling at straws.
Again your argument is just as made up and invalid as my argument, that’s why it’s a discussion. You asked for proof of people requesting changes to the game and I gave you a large sample size poll on reddit. I don’t know what else you want for me to prove that there are a lot of people that want updates and a lot of people who don’t want changes.
As to what those updates would be, I can’t speak on that but I’m sure more polling, surveying, and data will give the D2R team the answers to that.
And as for it not being economical for blizzard, I think you’re wrong. In this day and age content updates are what bring players back, look at a game like Overwatch for example. Once the developers stopped pushing out constant updates the community severely died down and a lot of players were upset. Same is true for all the other hugely popular multiplayer games these days.
What do you mean looking really hard ? I posted 5 minutes before you did. It’s not my problem that you don’t care enough to check for it.
At the end of the day I don’t want those changes either, but if the community is majorly in favor of changes, then the game will eventually change. That reddit poll is probably a good enough sample size to show that wanting ‘changes’ are in high demand.
Writing names from the newest.
Has anyone noticed that D2:R will not be available to MAC OS users?
Is the project diablo 2 thing starting tomorrow?
PlugY + Perfect Drop for 14d?
D2R: Defense / Chance to Block while Running vs Walking
Will Diablo, Mephisto and Baal be in D4? Imperius? Archangels?
Can PlugY be installed and used on an existing save?
Did you use IGN forums back in the day?
Will Diablo 2 have rifts and seasons?
Why the Barbarian has to be a staple on the Diablo franchise?
Balancing still dosent means personal loot. That is core of the game. And it dont need to change to please casuals.
A post made by a player who struggled with hell diff. Yep only those type of players demanding personal loot. Thx for bringing this up. Still those are the same 10-15 players.
And again there will be PLENTY of new players who are noobs that will complain about the game, unfortunately we can’t tune them out because blizzard has a history of catering to the loud majority.
Ok but what if we don’t want balance changes in the core game?
What is your solution if the majority of players are asking for balance changes, but to me I think those balance changes upset the core game for me. (nerf hammerdin, enigma, etc).
That’s a good argument for a modern multiplayer release like Diablo 4, but again I don’t think that’s necessarily their objective with D2R. D2 has enough depth and content for people to still be playing it now, and I don’t think releasing a remaster is going to make that suddenly go away.
majority is those players who are still gonna play d2r after years. Not some noob buying the game and demanding changes cus the game is tohard for him.
D2 after 20 years still has tons of players (and not talking from modder noobs). If its gets only graphics upgrade still gonna survive 20 years.
And? I say this again : Only cus entitled new gamers think that they can demand changes only cus they bought the game that is wrong. Nobody is forced to buy a game what is a REMASTER he dont like. And as soon when d4 comes out they leave and we purist have to play a game what is changed by those who are already not playing the game.
I think I’ve stated this in a number of threads before, but I know what the devs have said about potential changes in the future. They seem pretty adamant about the initial launch being very simply the base game with improved graphics/UI/cinematics and a couple QoL tweaks. But yes, it is really unknown as to what the devs are thinking in terms of long-term maintenance/improvements, and they may not know yet either. I would still expect them to keep the community and the battle net ruleset identical to the original for the first ladder season. I think that’s their objective based on current information.
I know there are many people that want changes and are very vocal on these forums. That reddit poll is interesting for sure, but you have to admit, that reddit is one of the worst places on the internet for vocal minorities go to complain (only second to Blizzard forums!). That said, the poll definitely shows the community is split over some things and I’ll give you credit for that.
One interesting point I was recently reading was that Diablo 2’s last major content update (just minor skill balance and itemization tweaks) was just before Blizzard North completely disbanded and left Blizzard, I believe. This was in patch 1.13 in 2010. Had they stayed, it is unknown whether they would have continued to update the game, but one can imagine. The hard thing about this is that we don’t know what they would have changed, or whether the game reached their ultimate vision and final polished state. I personally have little trust in modern Blizzard to go back to an old and perfected game to make changes. That, and the game is already in a very good state that requires no changes.
If there is a contingent of the community that wants changes, let them try to base game first when D2R is released. Then VV will assess feedback and make judgement calls based on that. But since VV is not Blizzard North, I am probably going to scrutinize any potential changes they look into. They do know that they need to have a very steady hand in this, or they may risk upsetting many old players. Anyway, let me conclude here. I don’t think splitting the community is going to lead to anything worthwhile. It’s an additional, unnecessary challenge for the devs, and there are a number of risks involved that may affect the online/multiplayer environment and new player experience. For people that really want a different experience akin to Path of Diablo or Project D2, there will be modders to accomodate that.
A few questions for you Bloodshot. Not insinuating an issue, just trying to better understand your stance.
Do you not imagine updates for the game at all after the release?
If there were updates, would you be for/against keeping a base version of the game that still is true to original LOD?
The reason I asks is that if they DO update the game at some point and decided to leave a base option we end up in a state where the OP has asked for anyway. I am not sure if you’re saying you want updates to happen in one iteration so the attitudes of “purist” and those who want crazy changes both have to be weighed?
My current understanding on future updates is that the devs will likely be extremely scared to make any changes outside of minor QoL tweaks, because they are risking putting Diablo 4’s bottom line on the chopping block. (I.e. killing the faith in a lot of old Diablo fans, that modern Blizzard can make good Diablo games anymore.) Vicarious Visions has a ton of pressure on them to do D2 justice here, and are primarily focused right now, and until launch, on creating a faithful remaster in a modern graphics engine on modern battle net.
If Blizzard were to make significant changes that modified the game experience, I agree that also maintaining the last version that Blizzard North updated would be an interesting middle ground. But ultimately, the changes people are asking for would change the game too much and many of which are not actually in the spirit of D2. There are many reasons why D2 is so legendary and many of the changes people ask for would detract from why it is good, without understanding why. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. And at this point I would rather remain stalwart and not give them an inch. So ultimately I don’t think they should make any balance/itemization/mechanical changes period, needing to even necessitate multiple rulesets in the first place.
There are also many reasons I’ve already discussed why splitting the community is bad (I’ve written essays in other threads about it already, not going to do that again here), but if they were to do it at some point, it should not be at release. That would be the worst time to split the community. At the very least, if the community is split with different rulesets, it should be part of a major content patch, that is really thought through well. And even then, this might do the community more harm than good, and might never happen because they do not want to upset the fanbase that they are trying to win back.
It all depends on what their long term objectives are with D2R. To create a museum for D2 fans to come back to enjoy, or to evolve an old game into a new game, while running the risk of straying from the original vision. The latter would definitely rub a lot of people the wrong way and I would be shocked if they took that risk. Their opportunity to make a new Diablo game with new modern conventions for the next generation is currently in development (Diablo 4) and so this is not needed for D2R.
First, I can not even show you the majority of my posts in the diablo 3 forum from >2 years ago since Blizzard deleted/archived/made publicly inaccessible the old D3 forum. It is a bit ludicrous to ask people to provide links to forum posts from 15-20 years ago because those post are no longer publicly accessible.
If you do a google search where you limit it to things at least 15 years old that are diablo 2 related, the hits are incredibly paltry. There is the absence of evidence logical fallacy where someone think that since definitive proof can not be found than it must be wrong. That is clearly not the case.
Certainly, you have read the D2R forum and seen many posts from old D2 players where they mentioned that they dislike certain D2 features at the time. Do I need to find you forum post from 2000-2005 to demonstrate that people disliked mulling in D2 and wanted shared stash instead? Do I need to find you posts where people hated the fact that their characters were deleted on the old servers since there was a gap in their logins?
Most social players back then knew what the common complaints were. I remember as well as others.
The reddit thread linked below discusses changes that players want in D2R. This includes many players who played the original D2.
It is 83% (of nearly 1, 000 respondents) who want rebalancing and new content. If I had to guess about sampling bias, I would bet that in the D2R population more than 83% want balancing and new content.
You told that years ago also alot of players wanted personal loot. Prove it! Not i need to prove something what you say. Prove those alot of post cus as a day 1 d2 player i never seen these kind of “tons of posts”. Sure there always was 1 or 2 noob who also struggled with hell but i dont rly care if someone sucks.
As i told earlier. If someone finds the game to hard that isnoreason to make it easier. But its true that i also know day 1 players who still struggle to make enigma on new ladder. But that is still no reason to make the game easier.
No you only need to find where alot of players demands personal loot. And still in original forums. You are the one claiming that players demanded this then YOU need to prove it.
How do you know? You mostly played solo.
Personal loot is core game changing thing not rebalance. Need to buff bow amazon? Sure its just weak. Need to buff martial art? Sure it is weak. How about new maps? Ofc. More place to farm. Need to change core game mechanics to please noobs cus the game is to hard for them? NO.
The part that I think is kind of funny is that the people saying “It would fracture the community” are the same people who say “If you don’t like fighting for loot, play single player or with friends” as if that alone doesn’t split the community.
More places to farm is another balance change that could definitely change the core game. It’s like the guy that made the thread about nerfing baal runs
Unfortunately the sad reality is a ton of people that are going to play this game aren’t going to be people that grew up with D2, a lot of them are going to be children / teens that grew up playing D3 and they’re going to expect changes that modern ARPGs have such as ‘personal loot’, ‘skill balancing’, ‘etc’, and I for one do not want those changes in the core game. There is a risk that the developers will cater to this community if it ends up being a large population of the D2R playerbase, and I’m not saying we know for sure if they will comprise a majority, but I would assume it will definitely be a significant amount for the developers to consider some middle ground. That’s simply all we’re saying.
Keep in mind though that part of the reason D2R even exists probably is because it is so great, as it is without changes, and many people don’t like the direction the took with D3. And the generation that hasn’t had a chance to play D2 for what it is, deserve that experience, without all of the modern game design philosophies that have negatively impacted so many modern games.
A lot of the conveniences, homogenous balancing, lack of build diversity, among other things are why D2 is a better game than D3, so we shouldn’t change it to be more like D3 just so it’s more “familiar” to people. People know this is an old game from a different time and will likely be really interested to seeing how the systems worked back then, and will quickly feel the greatness and timelessness of D2.
Still doesn’t solve the issue of when they attempt to make balance changes, which they already stated in the interview that they would if enough players ask for it, won’t end up affecting the game for certain people.
For example, if a majority of players complain about hammerdins in pvp they may lower the damage on hammerdins to give other cookie cutter builds more viability.
Another example, maybe too many people complain about desync happening in PvP and they convince the developers that it’s too ‘unfair’ then there’s a chance developers will make an update to fix this. Then with an update like this a character like amazon will become less viable in PvP, let alone many other builds that rely on high R/W speed.
There’s infinite changes like this that seems small, but can affect core gameplay for many people. This is why when they do inevitably make changes, I hope it isn’t on the game we want to preserve.
