They should also mess with GRifts.
Let GRift 150 have the same rewards as GRift 100 or 120 or whatever. Scaling down the crazy reward loop of the game, and allowing more builds to be viable.
Do a similar thing with Torment lvls, with the highest ones being challenge only, without extra rewards.
But thatās not what folks are arguing. āIf Iām working harder, I should be rewarded for itā will be next outcry.
And then it goes back to, āthis is trivial and the rewards arenāt big enough to make me run trivial contentā.
So ask for bigger rewards! Iām all for that. But Iām not going to rush to GRifts because in my opinion, the rewards arenāt big enough in that mode for me.
And yes, I do run GRifts. I run quite high too and could run higher but itās all the baggage that comes with them that Iām not interested in.
Well, it is what I am arguing 
(and the OP too it seems). People should not be rewarded just because they āworkā harder. I mean, sure, to some degree they should. But not necessarily all the way. Having difficulty modes that exist solely for the challenge (including leaderboards), would be just fine.
Itās not difficult for me to predict the same outcome as Idolis. The second they see there are higher Torments, without increased rewards, the petitions to hike up gains will come flooding in. Itās part of the cycle.
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Funnily enough during the ptr that gave us torment 14-16, folks complained that the drops in those difficulties (as in death breaths and bounty materials) werenāt enough to warrant said difficulties. You know what happened next? Blizzard agreed and upped the rewards for torment 14-16, and you can bet theyād do the same again for whatever next torments theyād add in.
Just to put it a personal anecdote in here. Back when I was running 118 as a all time high with UE, running speeds for gem ups to augment or for a bit of experience wasnāt something I complained about.
(Now donāt get me wrong. I love the GoD set)
But now Iām running 132 to 133 with 3K paragon as a limit (well not really a limit just donāt like the XP grind I guess) Iām having run even more of those speed runs for gem ups. Thatās running trivial content to me just for 5 gem ups and Iām sorry but thatās just ridiculous.
I mean, thats kinda the game we playā¦Item upgrades, gem levels, and exp/paragon. Where I feel like most players have a misperception of the game that where item upgrades are the end game (which partially they are), but leveling gems and gaining exp/paragon is really the only thing that isnt so rng basedā¦Aside from static drop rates of bounty mats, but there so rng-heavy with reforging and upgrading rares to get good items from it.
I dont expect human nature to change. I think it is fair to expect Blizzard not to cave to such demands however. Not that I believe they wouldnāt.
If Blizzard canāt say no to their players, they might as well stop developing games.
Thats a bit of the problem here. And what part of my argument has been against. Stop introducing so much power creep to allow for new content, to allow for this content to introduce 4man Rifts and Bounties, and possibly other content like Ubers n Vaults. Theres so much more Bliz coulda done for the game instead they make it so out-of-balance and feed in to all the carebears. People donāt want a challenge unfortunately. They want to be hand-fed and not work so hard for everything.
Yeah, and it goes back to T16. You get just as many items running a T16 Rift but Death breaths too. You get about the same amount of items running Bounties, but deaths breaths and crafting materials too.
The only thing thatās missing is the experience and you can get that and gem ups in GRifts. It sounds to me that folks, even folks that like to run GRifts are fed up with them and all the rewards from them (except maybe gem ups) put in the rest of the game.
So yeah, letās have the devs get rid of GRifts. I can get behind that.
Oh they can say no, as they have done before. What you fail to realize is that Blizzardās mindset towards Diablo 3 endgame is that greater rifts are the sole challenging and rewarding endgame, a mindset thatās shared by a number of players. So in short, they donāt want to say no, because they agree with the idea that higher difficulties should offer higher rewards.
Just about every other content available is only there to help players run greater rifts (excluding campaign mode which is hilariously seen as tutorial mode by some folks), and this includes Nephalem rifts and bounties and as such Blizzard would want players to be rewarded for running these at higher difficulties (hence increased drops at higher difficulties) as well for them to be able to run them as fast as possible (buffs to some builds utilizing speed).
The only way thatās going to change is if Blizzard decides that greater rifts shouldnāt be Diablo 3 sole rewarding and challenging endgame; and I can say with no uncertainty that I highly doubt that.
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Hellā¦Iām actually more interested now with who would like to consolidate all the info/ideas in the thread on points people can agree on and in favor of versus who doesnāt agree and not in favor of. Itās so mix-n-match it feels like, and nobody seems to be able to agree on anything. Some people want no change, some people want change. Some people want no new/added content while others are content with whats already there and available. sigh
Dont get me wrong, I have zero confidence in Blizzard doing the right thing in general.
But if they believe GRifts should be the only rewarding thing (which they apparently do), then wouldnāt caving to player demands, and increasing rewards for higher torment lvls go directly against their own belief?
In their upcoming title, they embrace more than one type of activity for character progress. Perspective changes over time as they hear feedback of what players value and criticize. Why do Greater Rifts have to be the only endgame activity, after all of these years?
Majority of players have vocalized their disgust of the current bounty system. Blizz has more reasons to improve bounties than to leave them alone. Making bounties challenging and more rewarding is low hanging fruit ā it doesnāt have to become the sole thing we do after signing in ā this all-or-nothing thinking is unhealthy for the game.
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What Iām saying, Mers. Is Iād be cool with more T levels, if I didnāt have to run GRifts in order to play them.
T20 sounds cool, running 150 is all fine and good, I wouldnāt be able to run it because of paragon, but I get the argument.
Itās the GRifts and their rewards (or lack thereof in my estimation) that bothers me. I do enjoy running as high as I can in GRifts. I get just as psyched as other folks when I get a new high but the work verse reward ratio of everything else in GRifts that bothers me.
Iād run 125ās or 130ās all day everyday, if the reward was more than just 5 gem ups and some experience. But thatās just me.
The only way Iād sign on for higher Torments is if I got more rewards for the higher difficulty. Some players want something for nothing. I donāt think as many players will want nothing for something.
Stillā¦the point about campaign mode is bugging me. Who even plays that anymore? Itās almost 100% ignored. A lot of us complain about monotony and being bored with just spamming GRs all day, or bounties. What if the campaign mode had just as much challenge?
If theyāre adamant about not increasing the GR cap, if rewards matched difficulty, and if the whole mess applied to campaign modeā¦that might actually get me playing it again. Just to do something other than GRs and bounties might be worth it to me after all.
Thatās something missing in Diablo III. D2 had a sense of progression; you had to fight your way through each difficulty. I miss that.
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The last time I took things to a vote, I got a temporary forum ban. (mainly for linking to a third party polling website).
I get that and Iām with you. And thats part of my argumentā¦After all these years this is the best they could come up with? Throwing so little effort into the game that was so popular at first, for now a good majority of the D3 community to only play for the first 2-4 weeks of the season to complete the season journey. Introduce season themes thatās super impactful in Grift clearing to the point its basically exploitable in some cases like last season.
Captain Crimsons and Aughilds implemented via crafting was a good idea, we could use more of it. Maybe everyone is looking at the picture the wrong way. But new content needed to be added a long time ago. And the game is so old now and lost so many players along the way from it being dulled out. Unfortunately I didnāt start this game till Season 13 I think to experience the earlier days and see all the changes throughout the years. WoW is a fine example of what this game could have been. But they instead left it as dust in the wind.
Is Monday your favorite day of the week? (only click one!)
Yes
No
Edit: Fail attempt at a crude poll.
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Expand/rescale torment levels to be more challenging.
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Keep T16 (or equivalent) as the most efficient for speed farming by scaling the rewards very slowly after that.
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Leave this as the final basic game state of D3. No more buffs to tier S/A builds, ever.
I canāt control how any other players would react. But this would be my ideal.
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