One Man with his forms ,spreed sheets ,and bullet points dictate direction where D3 is heading

IMO, shouldn’t the game and skills be balanced around 800 paragon or something normative?

800 seems like a very strong point to say “Most players can get here, at this point, all sets should be darn near equal in overall output”.

That creates ultimate balance and opens up the floodgates for those that player at a higher level to dictate the path they choose.

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The current state of Diablo 3 is kind of like when grandma is on her deathbed. You really really want her to stay, but the best thing for everyone is for her to pass on peacefully and be done with all the misery.

Another round of treatment isn’t going to cure her. Especially when that treatment is half-assed, poorly tested content that leaves poor old nana in the same shape she was in the last time we visited.


Oh I know, you’re talking about Free! :face_with_monocle:


Have you ever thought that it’s not so much that Blizzard are listening to some dude on forums…
But that he actually does game design job correctly, and Blizzard’s employees do the same type of calculations and arrive to the same conclusions?

Because that’s MUCH more likely.
So far as I can see, 99.99% users on this forum have no idea how a game or a system should be designed, and what would or would not be enjoyable and good influence on a game.
So no wonder you can’t understand the logic.

Your entire point is argument from ignorance.

p.s. I haven’t seen a single post that you’re talking about, but that doesn’t make your post less a fallacy than it is, even if you ARE correct.


I agree.

Blizzard makes their own decisions based on their internal numbers and feedback on the forum. Trust me that I have made many recommendations such as game balance changes and other issues (increased stash space) that have not been adopted by Blizzard.

They did not listen to me. I never advocated for the complete removal of the rend modifier from lamentation. I wanted it to be a flat 100%. In patch 2.6.7a, lamentation had 100%-150% rend modifier (i.e. ~1.5 GR functional DPS difference from flat 100%). On live non-season, this build has cleared GR 146 in non-season.

Who is the one man? Presumably, you are referring to Blizzard employee(s). I am not employed by Blizzard so someone else made the decision.

Logic and math skills are good to use when thinking about game balance and Blizzard’s history.

I suggested that it might be a smidgen strong. Like what they did to barbs last patch 2.6.7, their change to wizards in patch 2.6.8 was an overzealous reduction in power in relation to what was tested on the PTR.

This is a simple observation that players who follow the PTR know well (assuming that there is no significant changes to the PTR build to live).

My views have been supported by a number of others who have posted similar thoughts. The irony is that my “napkin math” has proved correct on several occasions.

Your hyperbole is silly. Trust me if I had enough money to buy a million copies of the game, I would spend my money on something else.

Kindran is not me.

Even though Blizzard specifically told him he was doing it wrong…


Yes that was stated; however, did you see their later reply? They acknowledged that their tables had artifacts due to how early their analyzed dataset was.

P.S. The issues that were mentioned were not math related. We used different datasets and I chose not to scale/transform the data but to look at actual clears of 5K paragon players (4.5K-5.5K) in the America region using more mature non-season data.


Never gets old seeing that :black_heart:


and yet the truth won out in the end…

Can you clarify? Are you claiming that the truth is that you, working on an incomplete data set, came up with the right answers and Blizzard, working on a complete data set, came up with the wrong answers?


No. I am saying that I initially posted that it seemed to me that there was something off in their numbers in my mind. You quoted Nev’s response. In a subsequent post, she discussed why their analysis had artifacts and should not be considered as truth per se. That was my primary point.

So, if you didn’t come up with the right answers, what’s the logical inference about what sort of answers you came up with?

My math was correct. I clearly stated the dataset that I analyzed and how it was analyzed. Nev’s post said that they used a different dataset (earlier date) and scaled/transformed the data. I used actual clears.

Me 2+3 = 5
Nev: Your math is wrong. You should add instead 1+ 6/2 = 4

We used different datasets and analysis. You can check my math because I cited what I did. No one can check Blizzard but I assume that the made a good faih effort to be correct. I am glad that they mentioned the artifacts cause by the youth of their datasets.



  1. Bad method + Bad data set = Bad results
  2. Bad method + Good data set = Bad results
  3. Good method + Bad data set = Bad results
  4. Good method + Good data set = Good results

It’s irrelevant which of the first three options you went with because anything other than the fourth option ends up with bad results. This is a very old concept that’s now decades old of GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out).


Agreed. I know how I would analyze the data and the datasets I would choose to analyze. It is complex to do this well. I hope that Blizzard will do their best.

The nice thing about my data analysis is that I state the dataset used and how the data was analyzed so people can decided the limitations and determine for themselves which category it is. I even give issues/concerns about the data/analysis.

The issue here is that players will always have a bad or incomplete data set. That means regardless of whether they use a good or bad method to analyse it, the results won’t be good.

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The data that is available from the API is not “bad”, especially if you are thinking about balance and leaderboard rankings. Even Blizzard said their 5K paragon player data was based on the GR average of the leaderboard using actual and scaled/transformed data.

On topic, the OP suggested that Blizzard listens to me when it comes to buffs/nerfs. I think that you know that is not true.

Yeah, rend modifier needs to be removed from lamentation completely as seen by that 146 clear.

Actually, this is what happened. He was closer to the true balance where as Blizzard’s numbers showed classes clearing a lower GRift in Season 19 at the same paragon level than non-season. Anyone with a brain can tell that Season 19 theme adds the capabilities to clear higher and not in fact lower.

I think the possibility of it being true is approximately 0%.
However, the possibility that I’m glad they don’t is 100%.


I disagree with this. Removing the rend modifier entirely is ~5.8 GRs.