Kinda. Officially WoW Classic didn’t exist. Unofficially it did.
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Point is it wasn’t legally playable. I’m pretty sure you knew that though. Right?
Uhh, yes I knew that. I made it clear in my post that I knew it when I differentiated the two with the terms “officially” and “unofficially”. I made it clear I was taking about one legal version, one not-so-legal.
What do you mean, “I’m sure you knew that. Right?”
You think I was trying to slide something past you? Lmao. This thread is a clownshow.
At any time on USEast D2 server there maybe 20k to 80k.
Then there is USWest, Europe and Asia.
Overall the number of active players at any time may easily be over 100k worldwide every day.
These are the facts.
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Diablo 3 is still garbage now. people just loggin for seasons and after a week they dont come back. Game is boring af without trading and without replayability.
You still have an active community on D2 20 years later…
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I’m one of those that played the first 2 and as far as I’m concerned the 2nd was the first
And when D3 was released everyone was complaining about the P2W of the RMAH and the complaints about gameplay didn’t happen until RoS was released, before than it was all about making money
Im so confused right now? The fiest game my friend was the first one the second one was the 2nd one the third one just went completely out of the way to destroy itself.
That isn’t true at all.
Less than a month in people were complaining about all sorts of issues with D3. One being many of the so called legendary items being super awesome according to blizzard, were actually released in the same state they were in as placeholders. Blizzard actually thought the original loot system was enough to sustain the game, including the auction house systems. The loot system alone was terrible from the get go. With or without the RMAH/AH.
I implore you to go take a look back at the old forums during that time and you will see tons of complaints about the game, its depth, complexity and terrible design choices. Hell, go back into the beta forums and you will see everyone complaining about the systems overhaul just a few months before release.
Many of the issues with D3 were identified within weeks of its release. Many of the potential issues were discussed in the beta before the game was released, including the obvious issues with the loot system and the RMAH.
Many of the same core issues still exist in RoS as they did in Classic D3. Shallow game is forever shallow.
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D2 Discussions Can Be Found Here ( See Below ) Not the D3 Forums or have you no idea how forum policy works
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/blizzard/c/diablo-ii-general-discussion
This is a discussion about both games and since it is as such and we are speaking of diablo 3 and 2 equivically ill continue my posts here. I know exactly how it works thanks
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Title of Post Reads
[Observation on D2 remaster likelyhood]
And is requested topics of D2. If your discussing D3 you have gone off topic and overall this thread should be in another forum
Has anyone been led to believe that Immortals was based on any version other than D2? I know I was certainly informed as much, or misinformed if it was not.
So if there is a remaster, maybe 1+1 does equal 2.
Yikes dude, you are being intellectually dishonest if you think D3 sold because of it’s own merit. It rode the name of IP, and drove it into the ground. D3 is a joke to anyone that isn’t fanboying over it on it’s own forums, and you know it. We all know it.
Your steaming pile of vitriol against ggg and poe is not as cute as you think. Yikes.
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this is so much me.
I replayed d2 right before d3 launch to “prepare” oh how was I disappointed with the direct comparison. d2 before had me stay up all night again, while d3 I noticed getting tired on my very first playthrough, just turned off and went to bed. it may be a good game but it was that moment where it dawned to me d3 is no where near the epic d1 or d2. later I found out that no one working on d1 and 2 were responsible for d3. it figured of course
D2 vs D3.
For the bil time.
Last thing we want is people with idk < 100 hours on D2 talking trash about the game like its bad or not-smartly-made. Ideally you’d like a 1k+ hours D2, 1k+ hours D3 person commenting on what game is better and why, with developer-lenses on the entire time not just ‘killing mobs for loot’.
Is that Iron man?
Who knows how much, and through what angle, he/she looked at D2 during this comparison. My guess is minimal D2 time, maximum D3 time, and like no thought whatsoever to deep game design issues like say ranged attacks balancing out your chars ability to run through the game.
Did ironman see black souls and be like “Wow, this is actually super smart to keep my char from zooming around without being forced to engage in combat?” ie Black Souls were a very-smart design decision, along with the other ranged-attackers like countess archers and such.
Did ironman see the lack of a yellow arrow in D2’s quests and be like “wow, this is super smart that the game doesn’t hold my hand on where to go, like D3 does”.
Etc etc.
Please have enough time on D2/3 before commenting on what game is better if you want to be taken seriously, especially if you don’t reveal that you have not played a lot of D2, and/or played D2 through a deeper than the surface, analyze everything, lens.
There’s way, way, way more depth to this comparison than one or two or five points. It’s about 100 solid concrete game-design-aspects you can go compare and see who did what better, who did what at all, who avoided this or that, etc.
Here’s one super-fast example:
Black Souls - their purpose.
Running-through-the-game-prevention.
Also known as Monster Attack variety, or what have you.
In D2, Black Souls f/e are a super-fast, literally lightning, high-damage mob with that affix that prevents your char from running through A4 where they first appear I recall.
What monster-affixes does D3 have that prevent the player from casually walking, let alone running, through the game / areas / cherry-picking mobs? I mean there may be something mobility-reducing in D3 that stops a running person, I doubt it, but maybe there is. If so, it’s not waller or so since those are easily avoided / don’t cast frequently enough to be effective.
So one genius thing D2 did well was have stuff like the archers that chase, or dark souls, or others that have a real, deadly, ranged attack. Also, there’s mini-stun attached to like every attack in D2, further slowing your char’s ability to run trough the game. D3 does not have mini-stun baked into mob’s combat.
So there is one, of literally 100, solid points of something D2 did way, way better than D3 / understood on the dev side of things that the D3 devs and their anti-d2 attitude did not see / realize / agree upon / do / respect.
Yes, D3 did a handful of things right, most notably was the ATTEMPT at trying to break Diablo up from a “Look up the build, copy it, and then the only diversity going on is gear-found + navigation of a build, both things that aren’t that hard to screw up / not-find given time”. However, D3 obviously totally fell flat on it’s attempt to shake up the ‘google it first’ bug that plagued Diablo 2.
You want skill tress / leveling up skills ofc.
You don’t want it to be “ok look it up, copy it, just like a deck in magic or hearthstone, and then let the navigation be the only differentiator”.
Problem is, no matter what choices are presented to the player, such as in D3’s case, builds are still constantly always will be googled because googling choices is easier, like way, than figuring out something oneself.
There may be purist like myself who refuse to copy, like in hs, but in a diablo game forget about it. Google is going to happen, so what can devs to put the differentiator off-google and on-the-player’s mind? You want skill trees, leveling up skills, but you don’t want google to provide all that solution to homogenize the playerbase.
Obviously, unlocking upon level up was a horrid idea, since like, leveling up and not-buffing your skill that level up, repeatedly too, really sucks, like what D3 did.
Solution would be to have skill trees, have skill level ups, but somehow get the power of that build to remain in the rarity of the gear needed to make it OP, or difficulty of the monsters required to kill off to acquire such gear if it’s alvl based like D2.
That’s why immunities were so critical to D2, that super hard defense mech put in place on the highest a lvls. people complain about immunities in D2, but w/o immunities, like…sorcs would dominate by clearing literally everything on the screen immediately and loot all the best gear. I mean they do with conviction, but you get the pt, that’s a super endgame weap to get to enable the class to do anything. immunities say “here’s a new problem, figure it out”. That’s a very-good thing for a game, instead of the alternative of not-presenting a new problem and having your current build continue on and the game gets old.
I’m going on and on and not even started tbh.
Biggest hope is they remaster D2, and totally include a balance patch on skills to bring underused skills up in power. Also I wouldn’t mind a change to the potion system because constantly returning to town, buying, chugging pots all game long is just old gameplay for real. Health pots sure, mana pots to fuel your build? C’mon, that was a D2 oversight (yes, D2 did have poor-traits, it wasn’t perfect, just way, way way cooler than D3).
How about being-able-to TP out of Duriel for health / mana / new-gear?
See stuff like being able to TP out of a boss fight…I mean Brevik couldn’t think of everything back then all in one go. But come on, it’s not even close that D2 is way better than D3. Everyone has a right to their opinion sure, but without putting in tons of time in D2 to understand what it did so well relative to 3, no opinion is valid.
Ie you have you play both games a lot to get beneath the surface to know.
You have to be thinking about deeper design issues.
Everything you see and hear.
Think about it, compare them, then you form an opinion.
There’s another at least 95 more of these to go over, it’s THAT deep the comparison if you are passionate about Diablo 2 vs 3 and seeing their good/bads.
Cube done right.
3 chipped + blue item = reroll that blue item.
Stuff like this, D2 did well at, because you have to know what you want, and this recipe allows the player to have agency to reroll something early on in the game. Whereas with the Mystic its too simple. Pick the undesired stat, get rid of it. That’s another example of rerolling, how D2 did it better.
Ok ill stop here,
but this ironman guy…
copying a game that was the goat, is the goat, and isn’t playable these days without black bars or windowed mode, is the-smartest-thing blizzard could do.
Just because something’s old doesn’t mean its bad.
Like do you hate on all old music?
F/e BSB sold more copies than any Beatles album prior to this, fact, source VH1 when it was good over a decade ago. Does that mean BSB > Beatles? Just because Beatles were old and did not outsell BSB…your logic above says you’d pick BSB over Beatles…because current sales over quality of the music.
“Innovation” over “copying the best game in this genre that isn’t playable these days due to tech to make it playable”
Just be real.
“I like D3 better ok, I want to debate this”
That’s what you should be saying iron…
Be real, own your stance, that you clearly prefer D3.
Also, back that up with game-design pts and not-sales, ok?
Bye, and love.
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It’s not going to be a fair comparison of game 20 years ago. Many things have change ,improved.
What make Diablo 2 special is that it was revolutionary game where it’s influence can be traced to many games today. Loot base game, skill trees ( D2 did not create skill tree but they revolutionize it) , multi stats gears. Etc.
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Okay bro i honestly think youre actually just being ridiculous at this point. People mentioned hoping that diablo 3 implementations wouldnt be in tge remaster or that some would, were still focused on diablo 2 and i can mention diablo 3 if i want as a viable resource for the remaster in hopes of what is or isnt. Relative to the game. Go troll someone else lol. With it being this close to blizzcon youre goinf to have to just get over yourself and understand that tge diablo 3 forum is going to explode with comments about d4 and d2 both because there are things we want to see from each game implemented that isnt going off topic especially if they are adding qol things from diablo 3 into diablo 2. Good day. Lol
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Youre telling too much truth watch out for snarky comments from keyblade and steve. Nowadays d3 has made so many people " oh i just want to clear clear clear as fast as possible" Diablo 2 you did have a hell of a time with resistances and even with utilizing a merc (spending tons of time getting runewords and gear for him) you could still end up in a bad place at times with elements. There wasnt this just clear mentality there were extremely tough fights. I will say in recent years the only thing that bothered me was hammerdins because very little resisted holy but thats an easy resolve. Runewords definitely need to continue existing. No idea why they werent in diablo 3 but hopefully they will be im four again. Every piece of gear you wore in diablo 2 had real purpose and you didnt have to use this or that ( i played diablo from day one and still do sometimes) and ive used crafted (orange gear) uniques sets as well as rare items independently and found more use of them for endgame too. Items has more purpose. There wasnt this insane powercreep. You could put 6 gems in a weapon and it wouldnt be like putting one emerald in in d3. D3 went way overboard. Runewprds were extremely powerful but not alone. You also had to farm different areas to get them then the annhi charm, and then the hellfire torch fighting ubers getting keys fighting uber diablo remember when thebgroind would shake and the message would pop up? He would be im act 1 somewhere and youd run into him and go oh crap! Point is you made really great points the people who never actually in depth played diablo2 through and through have no real input here. Especially ifntgeyre the type of people whondislike games graphics and only recently played it. The game had so many thing si can name better than diablo 3 and after a 12 year hiatus before d3 released d3 only has a FEW things (and only because of newer more powerful software) that could improve a d2 remaster.
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You know, maybe you are right. D2 was supreme 19 years ago and now it isn’t that supreme anymore… Unfortunately for D3 it never was and never be now or in the future what D2 was in it’s time during it’s full glory, the glory which D3 never reached 
It will be mediocre at best for the rest of it’s existence.
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Correction
D2 was the best game in the genre, and still is.
It’s not like D2 is “bad” because 20 years happened.
The massive problem with D2 is getting it to play natively now.
It’s not easy to get D2 not in windowed mode, but full screen, without black bars, and without zooming out the map 1080p where monsters are chilling un triggered.
Like getting D2 to work as it used to look, now, is no small feat. I know there is a workaround out there, and tbh that work around should be stickied at the top of the D3 forums for anyone curious about Diablo 2, instead of on reddit or youtube.
Diablo 2 is the best, its not ‘bad’ because 20 years happened, it’s just insanely hard to get Diablo 2 to not have black bars, and not be in some awful windowed mode, in 2019.
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