Now they are being sued by California

Unionization across the US in various industries is unlikely due to the common right-wing “Right to Work” rhetoric and related laws they push under the deceptively named concept. The short version is that it’s illegal to force workers to join unions and/or pay dues, but the general effect is that a workplace can try to avoid union labor and their higher demands in pay and conditions, such as jobs not being accepted unless everyone involved is also within the union. Tying way back earlier in the thread and the capitalistic assumption that participation within the economy is voluntary, the reality is that it’s more coercive because non-participation leads to suffering and inevitable death. As a result, such anti-union legislature compels that choice of “work or starve” where a given skill may demand higher pay within a unionized environment, but since employers aren’t compelled to play ball, you’re likely to have to settle if moving is not an option. If there is even another area where the skill set shines. The irony is often that these same proponents are against the minimum wage, but in the more well-to-do countries where MW doesn’t exist, it turns out it’s because they’ve embraced union culture and are overall better poised to guarantee better conditions for workers as they actually have the government’s backing.

That said, union busting and similar anti- propaganda is also common. I recall a good number of entry level jobs when I was younger that had us watch cheesy videos pushing the narrative that the company was family, and in not-so-subtle terms, anyone that so much as whispered anything about unions was a crazy uncle that needed to be uninvited from gatherings. This usually gets the ball rolling on finding creative ways to fire people to avoid legal countermeasures, as it’s generally difficult for people in these positions to afford lawyers for long-term litigation. The gains are also minimal even if they do succeed, and by that point, any willingness to work at such a job is also tanked. This further serves to keep people from stepping forward, as the “work or starve” reality strongarms them from doing the right thing if they don’t have a reliable safety net or even the personality to be combative about workplace issues. If it’s a job like in fast food where you’re also treated like garbage by customers who think you don’t deserve a livable wage, it’s also that much easier to just go somewhere else if it turns out your boss (and their bosses) is an unsavory human being.

So, this comes back to why the MW was implemented to begin with and how RtW legislation was an offshoot rebuttal in line with the perversion of the concept. Guaranteeing a prosperous standard of living for its citizens should be a focal point for any country’s government, and for a while, the US had a decent facsimile of that if you could look past the racism, sexism, and homophobia of the era. Enter Reagonomics, and the glorification thereof, with a wink and nod to the War on Drugs as racist dogwhistling, and so began the failure of MW keeping up with inflation, becoming repeatedly litigated against, and essentially hitting the point where we’re like 10 years past a leftist push for $15/hr and even that is $10 behind now. Multiply this against the skyrocketing cost of higher education and the massive debt many have been forced to take on in the past few decades and it shouldn’t be surprising anyone that people can’t buy homes or start families of their own because the American Dream was basically lobbied out of existence by the upper class.

One thing to note, however, is that Blizzard is in the advantageous position of being consider a dream job for many aspiring game designers and artists. With that reputation comes the luxury of being able to chew through low-tier workers while dangling that carrot of promotion and hope that maybe one day they could push the idea of their own hit game/franchise. Rock the boat? You’re easily replaced by someone else as naively starry-eyed. Again, this is where unionization would be to the employee’s benefit, as firing people becomes more difficult and issues can be relegated to people who actually have the means to address them and threaten walk-outs if ignored. Dues collected over time also help to serve as a war chest to keep people within the union paid during strikes so they’re not starving or facing eviction.

Anyway, when I heard they were hiring an outside firm to look into the collective issues, my obvious concern was that it would be a biased maneuver and essentially be a case of “we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong” with an extra step added. I expect a few token firings, but this is just feeling like the push for business as usual is going to win out as the bigwigs hope we forget about all this months from now.

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This is not true, software engineers particularly those in gaming or are early in their careers are often abused and taken advantage of. There are a lot of examples of crunch culture in the industry, particulary at large studios that develop big budget AAA games. They often use this as leverage against staff as for many young developers it can be seen as prestigious to be credited on a big AAA title, it is a real failure of the industry to not have unionised.

I honestly think she was one of the best, if not the best CM I’ve ever seen in Blizzard. Just my opinion of course, but she always seemed to me like someone competent and passionate about her job, and now reading that blogpost, it’s even more amazing how she managed to be so excellent in such an unfair environment.

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Nice~! Does the shirt engrave your name as well? I mean, the others got their shirt engraved with their nickname.

Right to Work is not anti-union. It is simply a declaration that the worker has a right seek employment and cannot be forced to join a union or have his wages garnished involuntarily to pay union dues.

Of course, the unions fight this like hell because if union membership is no longer mandatory, if they do a terrible job, people might actually leave the union, stop paying their fees, and their political power would diminish. Unions demanding 100% membership and 100% control is a power grab. And any institution can become so large and so powerful that it becomes corrupt: governments, corporations, and unions.

It’s a buyer’s market. Companies really can be highly selective. People want these jobs so badly, they accept working conditions like these. They also know the political climate is such that their government is actively selling them out. How? By allowing Big Tech to easily replace their workforces with H1Bs. Everyone’s replaceable. They don’t care how good you are. If you become too much of a problem, they’ll happily replace you with people who can’t even speak English, but will work for 40% less. And the US government will help them do it because the Democrats see it as free votes and the RINOs see it as free labor.

So many people who put their faith in unions 1) don’t know their history and 2) don’t understand that corporations will respond to economic pressure. There’s a reason manufacturing isn’t done in the US like it was in the 50s. It’s done in China. Because our labor is expensive. It’s cheaper for them to build a whole new factory in China to use Chinese slave labor and ship the goods back to the US than to pay pain-in-the-butt unionized workers’ every demand. So, they don’t. Unions literally priced themselves out of a global labor market and weren’t smart enough to get their government to put in protectionist laws to stop global outsourcing. And now we have the Rust Belt and a multi-billion dollar trade deficit with the third world.

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There are only two predence where gameing indusrty employees are in a union. One is Paradox interactive signed a contact whit two unions. And in South-Korea there are unions in the industry since 2018.

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Not true.

As for forces union membership, no it should not be legally forced, but unions then need to be able to fight against employees and employers who underpay or otherwise treat non-union members differently. If someone want to work somewhere, at the same conditions as everyone else, it is fine if they are not a member of the union. Even if that makes them a parasite.
Likewise, if most people in a company is in union A, and you want to be in union B instead, also totally fine. That is needed for competition between the unions. With the same requirement as before.

Or maybe it is because we can see how extremely well they work in reality. They are not exactly a theoretical concept, but have functioned well in some countries for a very long time.

Are there incompetent unions out there? Of course. But not wanting unions due to some being incomptent, is like not wanting capitalism due to some companies being bad, in relation to earlier discussion in this thread.

A union could have helped Blizzards employees in their current situation. And in all the situations that led to this moment. Would it have guaranteed this would never have happened? No, of course not.

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Yeah this anti union sentiment is all part of conservative brainwashing of the masses through their messaging over the last 50 years. Unions work. Are there some bad unions or some bad actors in unions? Of course. Are there employees who take advantage of union protections? Of course. It’s far less than advertised by the media, and it’s still far better than not having such protections and collective bargaining in place in other industries.

And talk about the history, Thousands were murdered by business owners in the frontier days of unionizing to stop it from happening all so you could have this thing called a weekend, a 40 hour work week, preventing child labor, health benefits, vacation pay, pensions/retirement, OSHA, as well as fair pay for the labor the represent.

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Yes! There is discrete little embroidery going down the sleeve that says “MissCheetah”.

This is the first time I have ever gotten anything like this! I never even had a T-shirt before.

Eh…H1Bs are not US citizens and can’t vote. Even if they eventually become citizens, there is no guarantee how the person will vote - or even IF they will vote.

Not just incompetent, there is also a historic tie between unions and organized crime in some places, esp NY/NJ/Chicago. Unions can be very powerful political entities as well - for good or bad.

Collective groups of employees DO have power, whether in a formal union or not. It works, which is why many companies don’t want it.

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Gotta love it when people and media in the US obviously and blatantly characterise a common issue (underpayment) to a sex, religion, group, race

It’s both disturbing and quite frankly discouraging to see the permanent need to separate obvious general issues into white/black, male/female, e.t.c., and to be frank it’s sad that media focuses on THAT outcome of a problem (or consequence) as opposed to the problem itself

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Yeah, but so have companies. Hardly a reason to prevent all companies from existing. Criminal organizations can be fought legally at least, no matter their shape. Incompetent organizations is a bit harder to get rid of. Hence why there need to be some competition in there as well.

Unions definitely work yeah. Unions being political is not a problem (unions directly cooperating with political parties IS a problem, but it is the same problem as when companies do it, and should just not be legal in general, such as Citizens United and all that silliness). Companies are political too. Both sides in a negotiation needs to be able to take a stance on the issues.

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Yes unions are not perfect. But this is not a perfect world. Any company or organisaton, even political parties can be corrupt if it lets it self to be. We have a metal industry union at my work place, i’m not a part of it, but they will help me agaist unfair treatment regardless. They fought for pay raise whit my employer for every worker, not just members of the union. They are easily found, because represantitves work as employees for the company. You got a problem, you talk whit one of them, and they will call a meeting whit the CEOs and find a solution.

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While it is in a technical sense general issues, those issues just affects some of these groups a lot more than others.

I do agree that, as an outsider looking in, the US often seem to boil everything down to gender, race, religion etc. which always feel a bit weird. On the other hand, the inequality between groups in US are just so extreme, that those groups always has to be part of the debate.
If the inequalities were reduced, it would no longer be needed to split up all problems in these groups. Until that dream world materializes though… it probably just is how things have to be.

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While this thread has certainly gone to some wild places, most of it does relate to the topic to some degree.

And it would definitely not be a good look for Blizzard if they tried to silence this specific topic.

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Butt hurt much? Don’t like it, don’t read it.

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Apparently my post for support for Nevalistis in this thread got flagged and removed? WTAF is going on here? :man_facepalming:t2:

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If you think this topic is some kind of SJW BS you need to re evaluate your life. What kind of monster is OK with what Blizzard is being accused of?

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Bobby Kotick himself has basically admitted it is true. Blizzard took the unprecedented step of announcing that someone was terminated over this behavior.

Claiming otherwise at this point is pretty silly.

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Maybe if you’d listen to the facts of the case, and that facts presented by the 2 year investigation and the facts presented by ex and current blizzard employees and ex-executives confirming all of it, you’d realize you are just dead wrong here. Unless you just get off on being an apologist for trash behavior and love being wrong all the time?

Did you even bother to read the court filing in this case?

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=>

:thinking: :thinking: :exploding_head:

Riight.

Which parts of this thread is not related to the topic?

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