English is also not my first language but I find you pretty articulate in it. However, it’s the name calling and belittling that gets in away of a good a discussion.
I’ve been saying this a number of times. I don’t see a right or wrong answer to this. We each have our goal and how you decide to enjoy/play the game is up to you. I’m pretty sure that if either one of us stop enjoying the game, we simply move on to something else.
And yes, D3 is not my only game. I tend to play games like Counter Strike and Heroes of the Storm for PvP since the playing field is more fair than say the D3 “leaderboards”.
I just came back to D3 when they released primals. I prefer to have end game goals when it comes to RPG type games and primals made it difficult, yet possible to actually gear out a character with end game stats. Again, this may not be a goal of yours and I’m cool with that. Just different perspectives again.
When your game is in maintenance mode and you want to sacrifice your dedicated players to prolong the play of the more casual, power creep is an easy way to achieve this for some limited time - until the casuals realize the absurdity of power creep or you finally hit the technical cap.
Power creep is bad in all other situations when your developer team knows what it’s doing and cares for the game it’s doing it.
It’s good you finally understood this. Took 170 posts for that.
although what scares me about the blog post that mentioned a potential to new sets/legendaries. is that they are going to have to be super buffed to be in line with something like vyr’s todo’s cold build. (btw archon is my favorite builds in the game. I really loved it when manald lightning was OP, and the current version is also super fun for me to solo farm with)
but a new set coming in that will have to have the potential in power to do 140+ solo in the hands of top tier playerbase. scares me a little bit.
but maybe we can finally get a nerf to star pack because 150’s are speed ran by top NS clans and there is no way to compete anywhere near that with any other group build in the game. I wouldn’t mind seeing a season where top pushing groups didn’t use a wizard for a little bit. or a necro for that matter.
I understood this from the beginning. I did say there is no right or wrong answer to this. It was just my personal meaning for GR 150 and I stated that from the get go. And I don’t think it took 170 posts to get there, remember, I jumped into the middle of this conversation.
Perhaps, but I’m sure many who were here around the time inferno was released will remember. Pretty big deal back then.
Same with Alkaizer and his runs. Think he just had major paragon levels for his time.
https://www.diablowiki.net/Alkaizer_Run
The dude is in the wiki.
And Kripp is reference on wikipedia
" Kripparrian is notable for completing the *[Diablo III](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_III)* video game at "Inferno" difficulty (the highest in the game at that time) with his friend Krippi, just over a month after it was launched. The achievement was done before patch 1.0.3, which made the game easier, and both players used "Hardcore" characters in the feat, which are lost forever when the characters are killed in the game.[[3]]"
I wouldn’t call it big, since Kripp group started way later than others and managed to get first, so the competition was pretty bad. That WoW guy, Athene or whatever, and his group couldn’t beat some A4 boss (with some shadow minions, going invisible) and hang there much time while I soloed this same boss with a mechanic they totally missed.
My point is there wasn’t much competition then although it still remains an achievement, but nothing close to some notable top rank clears in D3 in terms of skill.
Again, my opinion. Started way later than others? Wasn’t he one of the first to play Diablo 3? If you are correct, and he actually started playing later and achieve what no one else was able to do before him, doesn’t it make it even that much bigger? Basically, him and his buddy did it faster for something that no one was even able to do?
As far as notable top rank D3? Again, my opinion and I would disagree again. Most GR top clears are botted or and done with the help of add on like TurboHud and or macros. I feel bad for people who did it legit but most top clears are going to be associated with botting.
When Kripp did it, there was no paragon levels though I admit, there was the auction house and trading. But even then, it would take skill for someone to reach Diablo in HC mode and still bring him down.
If you google this guy and D3 you’ll see several articles/mentions of him. Compare that to the notable top rank clears on your mind.
He did not start way later than others, he started way before.
He explained after beating it that he and his friends had been renting time in the beta (before the open beta…) with D2JSP forum gold, and they used that time to study how the game worked, and to practice killing the skeleton king with little or no items to simulate harder content.
Not on HC. If I remember correctly he first started SC and 6-7 days later went HC.
It would, if the competition was proper, however it was not. Progression was gated by gear and they simply “catch up” those ahead who were low skill big family 24/7 players.
Yes, but far less skill than some notable D3 clears from players like wudijo and Blatty for example. I am not saying Kripp wouldn’t have reached their level of play if he had decided to do so (we don’t know that), just that first Diablo HC kill didn’t required that much skill since Diablo as a boss has lame mechanics.
No that is not correct. They played both game modes simultaneously using SC mode as a test environment for their progress in HC, however his ultimate goal, if we can believe what he has said himself, was beating Inferno Diablo in HC mode. Piddling around in SC mode being a part of that…and that goal began months before the game was even released, when him and his buddies were practicing in beta from huge disadvantages, and writing down all the information about the unreleased game as they could calculate beforehand.
He did not just roll over after 6 days and say “well…I guess I’ll try and be the first person on earth to finish this game…”
I’m not sure any competition in D3 can be considered as proper given so much RNG. But still not understanding your argument about how it was not proper given that he started late.
In my opinion, progression was gated by gear and skill back in inferno. Not sure what this means,
You saying they were playing catch up to low skill players who played 24/7? So no one had skill until he came along?
I’ve stated he had access to trading and the AH just as everyone in game had. And you saying there was lack of competition, what lack of? I would argue, competition was at its peak because the game sold millions right? Even if he had played late, inferno was not nerfed so him and his buddy still achieved what no one else had, even if he had come in late.
It’s like if you played seasons for 3 months and struggled and grinded and hit GR 120. Then someone comes in during the last week and hits GR 121.
Isn’t even more impressive for someone to come in late and still be able to beat those who have been playing it much longer?
Nothing to really debate here. I’m still more impressed by the knowledge and skill by a player who beat D3 Vanilla inferno difficulty than a higher clear in GR, because after all, GR is just a number right?
But I respect your opinion and you are more impressed by GR runners. Nothing wrong with that.
I’m not sure if Wudijo and Blatty did it on HC but man in HC there is no room for mistakes and inferno Vanilla was no joke. In softcore GR runs, you can fish and fish and just post up your best runs. Again, not saying that’s what wudijo and Blatty did, since I don’t follow them.
HC with trading is not that hardcore when your group has the support of fans and you can easily re-roll a char.
No one from that WoW group, yes. They simply were 24/7 online.
No, it’s like everyone receives a billion main stat at last week. Starting mid Season then won’t make your achievement bigger.
Ok, good for you, but phishing for thousands of GRs and then clearing the one that’s possible the way players like wudijo did in the past involves a lot more skill than Kripp group beating Inferno on HC.
It’s not just about the fight, it’s even managing to get there. And skills and gear are so much more different than in RoS. We had crap gear back then . Well we kind of still do. /shrug
And him and his buddy are the ONLY two who have ever done it. There were tons of streamers at release and I’m sure many had the same resources as Kripp, yet he and his buddy were the only ones to accomplish it.
Well, I would like to see him do it at 150. But until then, I guess one can only imagine. But maybe one day!
But hey, if it’s all the same. Honestly, what’s the highest GR clear today? Around GR 139 for DH? I’d be impressed if he can pull that off today in GR 139, using that same exact build. .
I just don’t know what you’re trying to debate here. Both of them are skilled in their own rights. Personally, I’m just going to go with Kripp and his buddy because to my knowledge, he did something no one else did. and there were literally millions of players.
I’m not sure since it’s been so long, but I don’t think anyone did it at his level. He purposefully did it that night because nerf was incoming the next day and he wanted to do it before it got nerfed.
I could be wrong , but if it’s true, he and his buddy may really have been the only ones to beat inferno at that level.
Saying the Diablo kill involves more skill is not serious since even the strongest damaging ability from Diablo (the cage) won’t instantly kill them and they can regen all day long aka there is no timer ticking.
The CR snapshot served as a graveyard for every single player that tried the CR, because of the complexity of the build, and the difficulty related to player’s to mobs dmg/ehp ratio.
Now, if we had tier progression at this same snapshot the skill would raise even more at say GR50, because the mobs dmg and ehp would raise while the player’s stats would still be the same aka resulting in a FAIL at even the slightest mistake from the player.
Also, Kripp’s team made a lot of mistakes in their fight, while the DH in the CR played flawlessly with a lot higher skill cap involved.
As, I said, both are skill in their own ways. I’m not dismissing wudijo. As your video demonstrates, wudijo is very mechanically skillful.
As Shurgosa pointed out, Kripp planed a long time on how to take down Diablo in HC inferno difficulty. There is a lot that happened that is not shown in the video.
Not many even made it to Diablo and as stated, none had beat it at his level. Again, this is with millions of players (Yes, not everyone played HC mode but given the number of total players, I would assume there were still many HC players who were trying to beat the game). I would again, think there were also many popular streamers at the time who picked up this game to stream. None of them did it. If it was that easy, he would not be the only one to have done it. It would not have taken him over a month to achieve it.
I don’t know much about wudijo but I assume he hit the highest DH soft cap in the game at that time. Kripp hit the highest hard cap for the game at the time.
Both are recognized for what they did. One is very mechanically gifted the other is vert good at strategizing. Not to say wudijo isn’t also good at strategy nor is kripp absent of skill because I believe to achieve what they did, you will need at least a little of both.
This was a CR snapshot of wudijo’s GR45 clear played by someone else who got rank 2.
For reference, very high percent of the D3 players would complete that same fight (their gear vs Diablo stats before nerfed), while only a very tiny fraction of the D3 player base managed to complete the wudijo snapshot although they had a WHOLE WEEK to do this.
Anyway, Kripp team showed a lot of dedication back then and besides all the gifts through trading from the community they’ve surely received, they deserve an acknowledgment for being first. It just isn’t something that big of an achievement, you want it to be, in the eyes of players who can properly evaluate the skill cap.
Maybe, I just don’t know. To me, inferno D3 was very challenging, not just the Diablo fight (I would never know because I never took him on at that level) but just being able to get there (which I never did at that level). Buy my skill cap is very low. But based on what I saw on the forums and videos, it was challenging for many folks as well.
I’m not sure if he was just the first or if him and his buddy were the ONLY ones to beat it at that level. From what I recall, after they beat it, inferno got nerfed. Again, the game was so challenging that Blizzard nerfed it just over a month in.
To me, it will always be a very big achievement in D3. I can relate to it. I got the game at release with the hope of beating Diablo and I know first hand how difficult it was in inferno.
Can I replicate what wudijo did? No. But I also can’t relate to it as well as Kripps journey. There is a lot more RNG when it comes GRs. If I was to copy someone, will I get the same GR lay out? Will I get the same pylons at the same spots? Am I going to get the same mob types and the same number of mobs? Most likely not.
But inferno was pretty static. There are some random dungeons built in, but the mob types the orchestrated fights of bosses are pretty much the same. Watching Kripp, to me, it’s like we walked down the same path and he made it to the end and I was no where close.
Also, it’s not just me making it into a big thing. As mentioned, there are several articles about this accomplishment.
For example, just one : https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-18532670
Their fight with Diablo lasted 20 minutes, mine lasted around 45 minutes from what I remember when soloing it on SC (I dunno whether that was before/after nerf date, if we can dig some patch notes to see date that can help). I had way worse DPS than them and I remember using deadly reach with most offensive rune and not dying. The battle wasn’t hard with my crap gear, just as you can see from that video I’ve done same kiting and dodging, regular aRPG stuff.
No, you can’t. The Challenge Rifts are not replayable once the week is gone. What you can do is ask someone who tried the CR and also beaten Diablo in Inferno to compare the skill level if you don’t believe me. Although I only watched people who streamed playing the CR, I can assure you it involves far more skill than Kripp’s Diablo kill.
