No respec ind 2r

Diablo II: Resurrected General Discussion
61

Nope. Never said that. Choosing not to use them is not the same as pretending they don’t exist.

Apples and oranges comparison, but if they want to pretend, sure. Their pretense won’t put their name on the leaderboard or make the ladder runewords work. Conversely my choosing to use the respec or not doesn’t negate its existence or its reason for existing. The option to use it remains, I’m simply declining it. That’s why it’s called an option.

Terrible comparison by the way.

I understood what you meant. It’s you who missed the point. The argument that “it’s not a true X game” is entirely subjective. You are free to dislike D3 or BOF-X. You have a right to your opinion. But it’s still an opinion and others are free to disagree with it. Telling me that my opinion is “wrong” because I like something that isn’t “authentic” in your eyes doesn’t hold water.

Back to this specific example, your stated playstyle remains whether respecs are kept in the game or not. But taking them out would alter the playstyle of many others. There’s no good reason to do that when both views can coexist.

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62

Means the same thing to me.

No it’s not. You’re just not interested.

Missed my own point about my own views? You’re not convincing.

You’re missing the point of value and effort. A character isn’t as valuable, when the effort and struggle wasn’t there. It’s the same as collecting items, they’re not as valuable when you can effortlessly obtain them. The same as being off ladder, you’re bragging rights aren’t as valuable, because they’re not authentic.

No, I really don’t think you understand me or players like me. You’re trying to convince me the game has the values that matter to me, when it certainly doesn’t anymore. The Diablo 2 patches can be whatever they want to be, but my opinion will still be the same.

Having instant respec, without significant weight, tarnishes value. Period.

I’ve seen respec in games where they were convenient, buy they still held onto value. An example would be Last Epoch, where you could change out a skill, but the next skill started at a lower level and needed to be leveled up. Another example would be Ultima Online, where you locked skills you wanted to be permanent and then you trained other skills to level up, but they automatically lowered other skills.

Also, making mistakes can easily be avoided, with a confirmation button.

When you can run to town and press a magic button to respec, without any significant penalty, that just sounds ridiculous. But a respec that has some weight, that demands you put in some effort to retrain yourself, then there could be more value. I’m not opposed to retraining, I’m opposed to instant respec.

When you build a character, you’re forced to play that build. You can’t just switch them, when things become inconvenient to you. The game should be balanced properly, so that many builds can be viable and that many paths exist. Choosing to invest 20 points into an ability, shouldn’t be considered a mistake. Also, there should be enough equipment options, to make many kinds of builds viable and enjoyable at end-game.

63

Your lack of comprehension is not anyone else’s fault.

We’re never going to convince you of anything honestly, you missed the point all the way back to the beginning of your conversation with Firemane. The point your missing is the logic regarding the very foundation of your view, not your view itself.

Oh, we all know your kind of player, again, repeating here, because you still don’t get it - people arguing against your “kind of player” are arguing that you want the game to solely conform to your playstyle, and your playstyle alone. It would be like someone arguing that Hollow Knight should only be the Steel Soul mode - is the game fine with that? absolutely. will plenty of people beat it? yep. Would it have nearly the same amount of people wanting to play it? nope.

Your agenda is basically that you wish the game was only your bubble, your people, that value the aspects of the game you do, in exactly the same manner you do, and that any feature that doesn’t fit that (no matter how optional) is bad.

I don’t particularly like Diablo 3, for a few reasons - yes, auto-respecs are one of them (as the game is designed and balanced around them). Do I push the point that the respecs need to be removed? no. It just means, when I -do- play it for various reasons, I respec sparingly after testing out the skills - because sticking to the theme of a build is important to me.

And surprise, surprise, the same can be done in pretty much every game with respecs - whether it’s a post-change grind up, or a pre-change grind up (d2)

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64

Interesting. You ever play one end game? Or you just sharing your thoughts from your perspective of a non geared lite sorc?

65

Yes, it is. And I was interested enough to explain why they are not the same thing. Perhaps you should address my actual argument instead of deflecting by saying I’m disinterested or lack comprehension, neither of which is true.

No. You missed MY point about the arguments you’ve presented. I’m going to assume you’re being deliberately obtuse here.

What you call effort and struggle, others call tedium. Games are supposed to be fun. It’s not fun for everybody to get to hell difficulty and find out the character they’ve put hours into is no longer viable. Also, some people like the ability to play one build while leveling and a different build at endgame. I don’t play that way but I don’t have a problem with those who do.

I hear what you are saying about unlimited respecs taking away some of the weight of your choices, and I agree that it’s one of the elements that makes D3 an inferior game to D2 all things considered. But remember, D2 respecs aren’t unlimited. You get three free ones and have to work for any additional ones. In my opinion that is a good compromise between completely unlimited or none at all.

I’m not granting the premise that ladder is “authentic” and non-ladder is not. Not everyone plays for “bragging rights” or gives a crap about being on the leaderboard. That doesn’t mean their playstyle is any more or less valid or “authentic” than yours. That is (again) simply your opinion. And you’re illustrating my point. If it’s meaningful to you to compete on ladder and try to appear on the leaderboard or assemble certain runewords before the season runs out, by all means have at it. But I dispute your claim that non-ladder players or characters are less “authentic” than yours. They aren’t. They’re just different. As I’ve been saying, a good game appeals to more than one playstyle. Yours is no better than any other’s.

Except that a confirmation button doesn’t currently exist in D2, does it? I doubt anyone would object if they implemented one.

So YOU say. And you can certainly still play that way if you prefer and if it gives you a greater sense of accomplishment or a greater right to brag in your mind. Once again, your ability to play the game the way you like has not been taken away. But why should Blizzard take away the ability of others to play the game a different way?

Agree 100%. It’s open to debate whether D2 has achieved that ideal.

2 Likes
66

You should look at the timber in your own eye.

Convince me what what exactly? That you’re a hypocrite?

Take all of the remarks and replace the you with me.

And you want me to conform to YOUR playstyle? Hypocrite.

I played and enjoyed Diablo 2 before respec was even added.

Why don’t you love it? What’s there to hate?

  1. It gives you free respec.
  2. It gives you quick loot.
  3. It gives you paragon grind.
  4. It gives you Auto-Gold.
  5. It gives you PLoot.
  6. It gives you great combat.
  7. It gives you tons of variety.

What it doesn’t give you is failure. Aka, Value.

67

I’m not going to address a strawman. You setup an argument to try and defeat my argument, without even addressing the actual point of my argument. My argument is based on my values within games.

I’m going to assume you’re a hypocrite.

Are you just messing with me? I’ve stated it multiple times. Authenticity.
If you can’t comprehend that point, then you won’t ever understand.

Stop telling me that I want others to play my way, when you’re literally being a hypocrite, suggesting to me to ignore respec. You can also pretend that respec is available by making a new character, it won’t be so hard. Just pretend, that’s all. It’s a choice after-all. See how dumb that sounds?

PS : They already took it away from players like me, when they appealed to your type. Because players like you wined about making mistakes and not being able to handle failure. Because the new generation cries, when they fail at something. So everything is being designed to be baby proof.

Most end-game builds are based on speed and power. When another build can wipe all content, at a pace miles ahead of the rest, then there are balance issues. Not all builds have to be as powerful, but they shouldn’t be miles behind ether.

The immunities don’t help with this, when people default to Magic/Lightning. When you get blocked because of a specific element and everything comes to a craw, but other elements can bypass that, it seems strange.

68

But that’s exactly what you are doing.
Respec being in the game does not affect your playstyle if you choose not to use that option.
The fact that the option simply exists does not affect your playstyle.
Other people having that option affects their characters, not yours.
If you choose not to use the option, the existence of the option does not affect you.

How many times, and in how many ways, does that need to be said to you before it sinks in?

You wanting the option to respec to be removed from the game directly affects the playstyle of people who choose to use that option, ergo, you want people to play your way, without the option to respec, rather than their way.

69

And that’s exactly what THEY are doing.

OMFG. This again. You guys are ignorant.
It affects the fact, that I don’t CARE enough.

Analogy:
I don’t care that LIGHT exists, when DARKNESS doesn’t.
When DARKNESS doesn’t exist, then LIGHT has NO value.

When FAILURE doesn’t exist, then EFFORT has NO value.

70

bring us more respecc in D2R,

ok you want less, lets meet halfway

it stays like it is

71

How does asking for an OPTION to remain which you choose not to use equate to THEM wanting YOU to play THEIR way?

You don’t want people to be able respec their characters without rebuilding them from scratch. All they want is for the CHOICE to be able to respec to remain in the game, but you want to deny them that choice.

What the–?
Why are you arguing to have an option removed if you “don’t CARE enough.” Whatever the hell that means.

Y’know what? Nevermind. You aren’t worth the headache.

1 Like
72

That option only exists because people complained about failure. It diminished the value of people who put effort into making characters and builds, which was forced upon them with patches. The game didn’t start with respec, it was added. The game changed. It’s not the same one, that many of us knew and loved.

What Blizzard does is completely up to them. But my opinion, still remains, an opinion. If they want to make all their games free from failure or even turn them into freemium grinders, that’s their own choice. The only thing we decide is that the game looks good or not… And that is preference…

73

… Yea, everyone except you is “ignorant” (psst - that word doesn’t mean what you think it means).

Oh, and fun fact - darkness doesn’t exist, same as “cold” doesn’t exist - both are just the comparative absence of something (light and heat energy respectively).

But I’m probably going to just ignore this, since it honestly feels like you’re just trolling or being intentionally obtuse at this point.

74

Everyone is technically ignorant with something and many people are blind to their own ignorance. Well, it’s not like people would actually know what they’re ignorant to.

Many ad hominem arguments end up as : I know you are, but what am I.

Yes, they’re the absence of something.
They represent the loss of something.

You say “I’m cold”, when you lack heat.
You say “I’m blind”, when you lack sight.
You say “This is boring”, when you lack fun.
You say “I don’t care”, when you lack interest.

They’re used to represent the value of something.
That value would tie to heat, sight, fun and interest.

You call me obtuse. But what do you think I see?
Someone that looks obtuse, calling me obtuse.

You spend too much time suggesting I’m scum.
Yes, you started slinging mud, way before me.

75

Indeed. The irony.

When everyone is telling you the same thing maybe it’s time to question yourself for a change. Oh wait I forgot you’re the only enlightened one here and the rest of us are just whiny children. Got it.

When you’re done being deliberately obtuse and intransigent and want to actually have a conversation let me know. Until then I’m done with wasting my time here. Not holding my breath.

2 Likes
76

Hate to burst your bubble, but you can respec by talking to Akara.

77

That should have never been added imo.

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78

It was added with Lord of Destruction like 20 years ago lol

79

Respec is fine. If you don’t like it; don’t use it. I should not, and DO NOT have to play the way you want to play.

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80

Like when they burnt people at the steak for witchcraft? Or when people wound up Jews into concentration camps? Or when people persecuted homosexuals for their preferences? Sounds like an argumentum ad populum fallacy to me.

You like to insult me and for some reason think that I don’t understand my own preferences. Do you also want to admit me into conversion therapy, so someone can try and change my preferences? Sorry, but you don’t sound as convincing as you think you do.

It’s not even a complicated point. Also, I never asked for conversion therapy. I also stated Blizzard can do whatever they want, so what are you really expecting here? I’ve stated my opinion on the matter and you wine about me trying to change things. It’s very strange.