About the same number as any nerfed build may get.
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You can always go off Wudijos spreadsheet.
It has estimated clears @ 2500 paragon based on math and actual performance, and is fairly accurate. it had FB at 135, which was respectable, and still higher than entire classes.
With the buff, and the estimated 6 GR gain, it will put it at around 141 at 2500 paragon, which is higher than everything except Masq bone spear nec (142), Thorns bomb Crus (143), and Heavens Fury Crus (143) which are all extreme outliers.
Having it at 135 was actually much more in line, but still more powerful than most.
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You have missed the point completley. It is all about GR capability solo and GoD DH now is barely in line with GR130 at 5k paragon after its nerf.
But so was Firebird after its nerf, the fact they buffed it meaning Blizzard have now exceeded their design ethos with it can mean other builds that have been nerfed that were similar to Firebirds pre nerf have a right to query why Blizzard have gone with their design ethos for DH and WD but not Firebirds.
How can you nerf builds along the line of their design goal, nerf a new build to their design goal, see people complain but then only buff one build and leave the other nerfed builds alone.
It is hugely inconsistent and makes a mockery of other classes.
Necro and sader are overpowered, no nerfs…DH and WD get nerfed…FB gets buffed PTR, then nerfed in line with WD and DH nerfs BUT then get a buff because people complain AND it takes FB above their design goal.
Players have no idea if they are coming or going and its Blizzard fault, they are inconsistent.
All builds should do their baseline at GR130 at 5k Paragon THEN Seasonal temporary buffs can grant than fun over power but Firebirds now has a NS buff that will mean it does far more than GR130 at 5k Paragon.
What are we to think? Mass confusion and the community scratching their head.
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5,000 non season? Loads…they have to balance the game properly…5,000 paragon in NS after the game was released in 2012 is nothing.
I guess u didnt read. I said DH were S tier in pretty much everything but solo pushing. I didnt miss the point. U missed it. U push for maybe around 10% of the season maybe even less 90% is about farming. Meaning DH is S tier for that 90% of the time. In s22 it was like that for wizz decent in pushing (10% of the season) and bad in everything else (90% of the season). Its not all about GR capability. Thats only your opinion, there are ppl who doesnt push. And as i said i dont mind giving DH a push build but it shouldnt be more buffs to GoD since its alrdy in a good spot.
And about firebird when wizz is bad at 90% of the game giving them a build which is better for that isnt a bad thing. They be top tier in several areas now. I alrdy explained why ppl wanted it. Also giving them a build which is weaker than twister wasnt a thing ppl wanted. They had no reason to play FB just like u got no reason to play impale. With the buff its another story.
Balance is around GR capabilities, read Blizzards blog post on it, what the class/build can do otherwise is irrelevant. Leaderboards and GR clears are the important thing and is what Blizzard have stated they balance with.
The Firebirds buff post 2.7 breaks Blizzards own design goal is my point, my point using Blizzards own design ethos as reference…not what some streamer says in some tier list.
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Blizzard listen to streamers and what ppl want. What their plans are can sometimes change to suit the buyers
Right so they must advise what their goal and design is…they did recently but are now actively doing things that are not in line with it, that is my point…it will lead to people reading what they say but see they are doing differently with no communications as to why.
You didn’t read it all
“Bear in mind this is aggregate data; the above tables only cover overall class performance rather than individual class set performance. Better performing builds may be equalizing out weaker ones when it comes to the broader picture. Because we make changes at the set and item level, we must additionally parse out data by build performance (whether it’s a class set or Legacy of Nightmares-based). The above method is meant to serve as an example of our general approach and informs us which classes most likely need more attention first.”
So if your class has one or more absolute garbage sets your best set may be considerably above that 130 mark.
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I think you need to read. The FB buff announced today makes the set fall into this category. It now clearly does higher than GR135 (5 levels above GR130) at 5k Paragon.
- +/- 5 or more Greater Rift Levels: Warrants significant change. At this range, it’s clear that something is over (or under) performing and needs to be addressed.
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It’s not measured by set performance. It’s measured by overall class performance.
Ok so add in other Wizard builds…add in Firebirds…average is GR130 at 5k Paragon? No…
I am pretty sure that the GR 130 @ 5k paragon was tweaked upwards.
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Wizard’s were already outliers with the LOD twister set, as a class. I don’t think you are making the point you think you are.
Thats not what he said. If there are build which are far from 130 at 5k paragon they have other builds which are above? Thats what i think he mean. And wizz got talrasha which is like F tier.
Point me in the official post that states that? I’m just going by the blog Blizzard posted not long ago linked above.
What do you mean no? You’re comparing a theoretically derived number of averaged individual sets against empirical data of hundreds of players in game normalized for changes. Of course your numbers bear no relation to theirs. .
But they also have many others that are very good, those take the class performance above the GR130 at 5k paragon by many GR’s.
THere is no denying the new FB buff takes the set well above most other builds and makes Wizards very good compared to the nerfed WD and DH.
Consistency must be the goal, its just confusing to see the FB buff compared to the DH & WD nerfs. It doesn’t match what they told us they were aiming for.
Thanks Bliizard finally you listening the fans, thanks a lot 
Take all Wizard builds, take 5k Paragon, can you do GR135 with them. The answer for most builds will be yes…
Repeat that for DH and WD, will the answer be the same? Will most builds do GR135?
The Firebird buff gives more Wizard builds doing higher GR clears than WD and DH. Given how poor WD have it why were they nerfed IF Firebirds got a nerf and other Wiz builds are performing better than other WD builds?
These are all valid questions.
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