If you didn’t think you could, would you stop trying?
3 Likes
Don’t feed me such false hope, I had a dream…
2 Likes
I don’t understand why people care so much about balance this late in the game this game is old now and the players who have been loyal since day one want to have fun with all classes the barb this patch is finally good bring other classes up to par and call it a day DH , WD buff that’s all it’s needed
1 Like
But in this case, it was necessary a PTR and a season to realize this, probably the next adjustment will be a good one. I don’t think the 1-2lvl balance is difficult, it just requires a few months of testing for that. The old devs were not trying, because 7 years is absurd.
Where do I sign?
Sorry, maybe I didn’t get it right. Are you saying that Barb is “fine” because most can’t make 146? So … is StarPact / Archon “okay” because most players can’t play to their full potential? Actually, StarPact deserves a Buff, because currently his solo GR’s “are weaker than Barb”.
Is it right?
Why:
Balance = Fun.
Being forced to play with 1 class / build is not as fun as being able to choose your favorite class / build.
1 Like
You missed the point. The point was: it’s possible to buff IK HotA without buffing raekor hota. How you do it, I don’t care. You could add a multiplier on shoulders with a condition that can only be met by IK. Example: “HotA deals 10% more damage each time it is used for 2 seconds, up to 600%”, there you go, now if you don’t use HotA every 2 seconds you lose your multiplier.
As I’ve said multiple times, I don’t enjoy playing a build to its maximum (which implies a lot of fishing) if I don’t get any benefit from it. When I fish for something, I expect to be ranked on the leaderboard with it afterwards. I’m not asking for a top5, but a top 12 would be ideal but even top 50 is fine. If I know I can do better with another build with hardly any fishing, there is no reason to even attempt the first build for me.
And they shouldn’t be able to, because nobody is paragon 8000-10000 in season, and 140 solo should be done only by those kind of players.
No way, for real ? TIL.
No, I understood that. We devised a method to do that in our proposal, and it was mostly deployed by the developers. But how you do it is important. Buffing IK directly is the best way to buff HOTA at this point, but you have to keep in mind that IK 6’s bonus is a global multiplier to all outgoing damage.
Anyway, that isn’t really the point.
None of this makes sense.
Classes don’t share leaderboards. If you’re in the top 5 for DH, that’s separate from every other class. Remember, no one is arguing that parity between classes and builds shouldn’t be improved. You just don’t need to nerf Barbs to do it.
What’s more, the level of fishing required isn’t any less for Barbs. I think you have this idea that Rend doesn’t require much fishing, or that you can waltz into GRs and barely worry about maps and mobs. That is far from the case. You can take it from me that Rend requires a lot of fishing for optimal conditions.
1 Like
But but but, DP said that he thought it could do 144-146, so then everyone jumped on that meaning that everyone would be roflstomping 140’s with only 2 skills on their bar… 
1 Like
I’m saying Barb is fine, period, with regards to Rend. It’s very strong. It’s a lot of fun. It should be left alone.
I’m also saying that other Barb builds could use a buff to achieve better parity within the class.
And I’m also saying that other classes need their builds buffed.
I’m not going to comment on Star Pact because I don’t main Wizard and I don’t have any in-depth knowledge of the build, its items, and its mechanics. I leave that to Wiz experts.
Finally, I’m saying that, should some other class get buffed next patch and become stronger than Barbs, that’s also okay. Once we’re all in the 140+ range, the max discrepancy is 10 GRs, and that’s only for the highest Paragon players. Barbs are not clearing 150 solo in non-Season. We’re not even cracking 135-140+ without ludicrous Paragon, gear, and gems. We’re not OP and we’re not breaking the game for other classes and builds. We don’t need a nerf.
Getting every class to have several builds that are 140+ is a fantastic goal because those builds, regardless of Paragon, are going to be strong, competitive, and efficient for pushing and speed-farming, and it’s going to diversify off-meta group compositions.
Hope that clarifies my position.
Buffs, not nerfs.
4 Likes
I cracked up 
On a more serious note, I don’t think Kikaha is being dishonest or rude, but I do think he–and potentially many other players–may think Zodiac Rend insures success when pushing. It’s a strong build, yes, but it’s only slightly less reliant on fishing than its older WW incarnation, and only then due to Rend’s mechanics, our ability to capitalize on AD, Rage Flip, and Flavor of Time.
3 Likes
Yeah, I know, it was meant tongue in cheek. I wasn’t having a go at him or anyone in particular. I think I am a bit jaded by hearing the same arguments over and over again, it’s gotten quite boring.
Ironically when I brought up that people couldn’t even decide on what it was that made the new WW Rend build so powerful, because of things like the above, I was called a noob, and told I didn’t know what I was talking about because I only had 1,500 paragon…go figure.
1 Like
The reason is that no single characteristic is most important is because all of these things contribute synergistically to the strength of the rend build. Grouping monsters and area damage is critical to almost all top builds. Area damage is not unique to barbarians nor is other classes’ equipping Flavor of Time.
To illustrate this point, what defining characteristic made Michael Jordan arguably one of the greatest basketball players of all time? Was it his athletic ability, desire to win, or his work ethic? All were important.
I know that this was said tongue in cheek. So I will say tongue in cheek, I can attest that not everyone thought this and that the truly knowledgeable posters were ridiculed for the notion that top barbs could clear 144-146, but here we are even after the magnitude of the buff was reduced.
Truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident - Arthur Schopenhauer
The good news is that the developers are apparently aiming for the “top” players who have high paragon to be in the 139-143 range.
In patch 2.6.6 (era 11), there were 3 solo GR clears at 146 or above (2 wizards and a thorn necromancer). In patch 2.6.7, there are already 27 AoV crusaders and 2 rend barbs that meet this criteria.
That tells me that Crusader needs a nerf and barbs are fine by devs’ standart.
1 Like
why do nerfs buffs nerfs buffs…just bring other and new specs up to par with current meta?
it’s so annoying…just when you’re having fun on a class Blizzard does Blizzard things ugh…
1 Like
Pretty much.
Frankly, I don’t want any nerfs to any class, but Barbs are fine–data about them is so heavily skewed right now, and folks calling for nerfs don’t really see the bigger picture. I’m confident we’ll be okay.
5 Likes
Are you begrudgingly admitting that although you still do not want a nerf to crusaders that you are starting to see the merits of a nerf given the data?
In era 11, there was a significant bias/skewing to wizards. Ironically, the highest wizard clear on the live non-season server when patch 2.6.7 PTR came out was GR 144 (for EU/AS/US) and GR 145 (China). The PTR already had a nerf to these classes. As you know their end of era 11 clears were higher.
Now in era 12, crusaders and barbarians have cleared GR 150 and GR 146, respectively, even before the “final” pushing.
Prokahn’s era 11 greater rift efficiency analysis showed how crazy of an outlier that wizards were throughout its entire leaderboard GR range. I saw the same thing. You can also look at my era 12 analysis to see how all era 12 classes compare to era 11.
Oh, I see, you must be confused. Let me clarify.
I do not want, nor do I support, a nerf for any class. Period. Cederquist has indicated that a Sader nerf may be incoming, but that, much less the speculation that Barbs will be (or should be) nerfed, is, I will kindly remind you, speculation.
So, if a Sader nerf does occur, I wouldn’t be surprised.
I would be mildly surprised if Barbs were nerfed, but I feel very confident they will not be nerfed for all of the various reasons I have typed over and over and over and over and over again. Simply put, I don’t think a few 8-10k Paragon Barbs clearing 145+ is much of a concern, and unless there are some behind the scenes issues (server problems, technical issues, etc.), I see no reason for a Barb nerf, period, end of story.
In other, other, words, Barbs are fine and don’t need to be nerfed.
Hope that clarifies things.
Moving on:
We should all be getting excited about the new sets that are coming next patch. Even if Barb isn’t on the docket this upcoming patch, I’m curious as to what other classes will get, and I’m secretly hoping for a big Impale buff in the near future.
4 Likes
Oh dear lord! I can only imagine the level of trolling, slobbering, and general window licking that will go on if Barbs get a new set next patch that can push mid-high 140’s
I like the impale set, would like to see that get a buff as well.
1 Like
Whenever we get our new set, I hope it plows 145.
7 Likes
Just like every single Barb is plowing 140 now
4 Likes
You’ve got me in two minds now 
One part of me hopes Barbarians get the new set this next patch because hey, new toys! And the other, more cynical part of me hopes that they don’t so I get to enjoy all the fun thinkpieces and two thousand comment threads about why the new DH/Necro/WD/Wiz set will break the game and should be nerfed into the ground for the sake of holy balance 
no matter what happens, I’m sure it’ll be a treat.
1 Like