Nerf Thread on General

Barbarian
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You clearly know what is going on, because you looks like a rationale guy.

Free thinks that people like me or micro are trolls that hate barbs, just because we want better balance in the game, fun thing is i was one of the guys that were asking for barbarian buffs (so it’s pretty funny that people here consider me a troll, specially considering that the very first topic i created in this forum was a topic in which i suggested buffs to mortick bracers :man_shrugging:).

Dev team nerfed necromancers and wizards that had similar numbers, but for some reason Free thinks that barbarians are ok and should not be nerfed lmao (this is even funnier becase one of the devs clearly said that anything 143+ could eat a nerf, specially if +145).

I really want a 3 GR nerf for WW, because is something not that big, but we all know that even a 3 GR nerf will still make WW over the balance, barbarian community instead of giving ideas on how to nerf WW in order to avoid overnerfs are just giving bad arguments trying to defend that overpowered build, at the very end this thing could end very bad, i really don’t want WW overnerfed but seems like that is what will happen.

And then after possible nerfs Free and their followers will start a new riot in forums, they are in state of denial and they have zero ideas to offer to barb balance.

Fun thing is they don’t consider that WW should not be a competitive pushing build, because it kills servers with area damage, and also makes every single other barbarian build useless, because is a build that has high mobility, can group mobs effciently, is the best barbarian build for bounties, the best for farming regular rifts and the best for barbarian EXP meta… And this will not change, even if they buff all other barbarian builds to 146 this will fix nothing, because people will still use WW because moves faster than other builds, so in order to fix via buffs all other barbarian sets they have to buff them +146, which means moving powercreep wheel further…

Also, just a reminder for players that are against nerfs, if they nerf WW by 3 levels, instead of do let’s say 110 speed you will do 107, and the difference in paragon levels per hour is slim(all this 110 speed was just considering low paragon players), so all that bad arguments of “omg stop ruining the fun of other people”, it’s just a lie, i doubt that low level paragon players care about paragon per hour, mostly because any player that care about that plays meta, and almost everyone that post here don’t care about playing meta lmao.

Every single build in this game should have at least a very small niche… the WW niche is speedfarming exp/gems and bounties, WW should never be a pushing build, let the pushing things to HOTA, slam or leapquake, because these build are not great for other areas, that way you bring diversity and balance to the barbarian class.

Also, i read one of the dumbest Free comments here, about the new set hoping to be OP and making “the nerf crew” angry. that thing will not happen Free, the only one that rages about nerfs and buffs is you, i really hope the new barbarian set focuses into primary skills and i hope it ends in 141-143 spot, because barbarian deserves a strong RGK, i want barbarian to be strong, but i don’t want barbarian to be overpowered.

Unlike you Free, if tomorrow devs say that WW clearing 146 is ok, i will not counter argument them, but if they decide to nerf WW you will make a big riot in forums, that is our difference… at the very end the one that rages is you and not “the nerf crew”.

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228

So, if I made a thread on the DH forum that asked for some pretty tables and analysis of DH performance in the current era / season, would that get three months of DH forum posts from you?

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Also, I quoted in this thread (posts #50 and #53), eight earlier posts on the new forum asking for barb buffs. Ironically, Free claimed back then that I was dog whistling and I actually wanted barbs too be nerfed in contrast to what I said over and over and over and over again.

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If you invoked my name repeatedly on the DH forum, Likely.

If you claimed that DHs were the weakest class for years on the DH forum? Likely.

If you claimed that DH are overpowered (which they are not) on the DH forum? Likely

If it was about class balance in general, I likely would post on general discussion as it is relevant.

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I truly don’t think we’re getting nerfed. Rend just got buffed, and it’s not as OP as Sader, and Cederquist and Nev haven’t said boo about Rend. All signs point to: we’re fine.

Even if we did get a nerf, I don’t think there’s much fighting to be done unless the nerf was severe. In that case, I would absolutely advocate for its reversal, and I always have a plan.

:rofl: :rofl:

Indeed it was, and it was about American Gridiron Football!

Do you still live in Australia? If so, I hope you’re not in danger from the fires.

You’re 2 for 2, my friend. Excellent points.

Fun Police will point to Cederquist’s post about balance and discuss what that should look like when practically implemented, but I wonder what they would be saying if the producer had posted different ranges. Anyway, their agenda is clear and has been for a long time.

Wait, you’re Table Guy? That’s you?!

I had no idea!

That’s your opinion, and not one shared by most Barb players. I feel confident saying that as the wick for the build for 5 years now.

Or you simply buff other builds to be more competitive.

So you’re the Bloody Mary of the forums?

Someone go to some other game forum and invoke this dude so we can finally have peace.

Agree 100%.

It’s easy to argue that physically demanding builds should be stronger, but–aside from being an ableist argument–it ignores where the true skill and complexity of game resides: decision-making and management.

You’ll notice that after I used the Fire EQ example all the talk about difficulty and builds evaporated. That’s not a coincidence.

Of course, we still get trash like this:

I hate that I have to explain this to a teenager.

Re-watch that 135 clear. Now consider this: What would have happened if he had a static RG and could have taken advantage of wall-charging?

See my point?

You can clear a rift without wall-charging, similar to how R6 HOTA can be played without wall-charging, but it won’t be as efficient, and you won’t clear as high.

If Dark or anyone else with 8-10K Paragon opened a 136 and got 2 GG floors, a decent Conduit, and a static RG and could use wall-charge, you’d have a new highest Vile Charge clear. That would take a lot of fishing, but the build has the potential to do it.

Clear potential is not the same as an actual clear. Do you understand the difference?

On second thought, don’t worry about it. The last thing I want is to continue a conversation with you.

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232

All???

I am not sure if a barb nerf is incoming, but to argue that there are no signs that a barb nerf may be incoming is a disingenuous statement.

To make the most compelling case to support your view, I would encourage you to acknowledge the facts as there are rather than ignore what the game producer wrote AND the nerfs that occurred in patch 2.6.7.

233

The only direct comment he made about Barbs was to say everything is fine, right?

Have you seen the blog post yet?

Hmm.

I’m sticking with “all signs” until I see concrete evidence otherwise.

234

The quote that barbs were “fine” was when the top barb solo GR clear was GR 142. It was considered 1 GR above their max and good balance.

On my last check, 2 barbs have soloed GR 146. 3-4 GRs above max is grray zone (maybe a nerf/ or buffmaybe not). 5 or more GRs = correction. Blizard may not act, but that does not mean that there are no signs.

146-5=141
144-3=141

Matt posted:

"I haven’t chimed in to this thread in a while but i want to make sure everyone understands.

In the blog post we’ll be presenting, it’ll go over the specifics of how we balance and hopefully answer many questions.

Some have already deduced through multiple threads and replies how we envision our balance.

  • Classes that are 1-2 GRs above or below our projected max GR is good.
  • Classes that are 3-4 GRs above or below our projected max GR is the grey area where we could potentially look at it to make some adjustments. Whether that be through numbers tweaking, items, or whatever other means.
  • Classes that are 5 GRs above or below our projected max GR is not good and we would aim to balance them in the near future."

141+3 = 144
141+5= 146

It is funny how he even noted:

“Some have already deduced through multiple threads and replies how we envision our balance.” This is not some fly-by-night post that was made without thinking. This is a view was easy for me and others to deduce given his multiple posts in several threads.

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How dare they, those pesky Barbaric Barbarians. Off with their Heads! Throw them to the Lions! “They Are One Point Over The Line Sweet Diablo!” All TWO of them. :exploding_head: :scream: :hushed:

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Do you know the top clears of the classes specifically wizards and thorn necromancers) when PTR patch 2.6.7 was released? Do you know how many players cleared GR 146 or above when era 11 ended?

I have posted this information already. You should look it up for yourself if you do not believe me.

237

“Or anyone else”
Kinda funny, as I’ve been holding all charge WR season and NS since season 9. Only 2 people were able to tie me on charge, and there aren’t into D3 anymore, and the skill gap between us 3 and anyone else (on that specific build) is actually huge. I did a 132 on wood with worst mobs on patch 2.6.5, without FoT and morticks, this clear would have stayed R1 for a year even on 2.6.6.
And this is exactly what I was talking about earlier in this topic, on charge, hota, and even EQ, people that main this build can make an insane difference versus anyone, even the bests. WW/Rend, which is actually overpowered versus any barb build, can’t have this intense skill gap, because you are limited by flip DR and lags.

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See what a good Era 12 Development Team compared to Era11 can do, they can make Diablo III way more funner! Thanks for pointing that out. :nerd_face:
Face it You gatta"Spin To Win" in this marvelous game. :sunglasses:
:peace_symbol:

239

Same development team as far as I know.

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I couldn’t say either, just being one of Micro’s “Rabble-Rousers”, but they did a mighty fine Job don’t you think? You don’t have to answer that I am just being disingenuous.
Maybe they will do even better this next time around and surprise everyone and make everybody Happy! :partying_face: :fireworks: :confetti_ball:
:yin_yang:

241

For clarity, my comment about demagoguery was not directed towards you. Also, I think that you may misunderstand the most common definition of a demagogue.

242

Unless I’ve missed it, I’ve never see you post about specific ideas to buff items/sets, rather, you’re all about nerfing.
Where were you over 6 months ago… and i mean, 1 - 4 years ago, when barbs were feather dusters. Where your barb would get 1 shotted against the siegebreaker assault beast, where you had to be close to 1.5k - 2K paragon to comfortably beat Malthael in torment 13 on your own, when you can’t play with mates casually as barb because it’s damage was pitiful, and the only time clan mates ever wanted you to play is as zBarb?
I’ve NEVER seen you or the nerf squad ask for nerfs against other outlying classes, like Wizards which were one top of the game FOR YEARS. I never saw you campaign to have Barbs buffed. You just seemed to appear at some point in the 2nd half of 2019 (from what i saw).
Yet barbs and crusaders finally get a buff, and BAM, the nerf crew are all over it.

I try to look at the intention behind what people say in person, or in this case, what people write, and I still see the agenda through things like:

  • what was your purpose creating posts with an underlying theme of a classes performance such as congratulating a Chinese player that will never read the the US forum?

-You spend what seems to be a massive amount of time, creating data analyses and replying to threats. But you’re not using this data to advocate for buffs for certain items pertaining to different classes, no, you target barbs and crusaders. If you have confidence in the Dev’s ability to balance, like you’ve mentioned many times prior to patch 2.6.7a, then let them handle it.

This is how you appear to outsiders/casuals that read the forums.

quote=“MicroRNA-1507, post:221, topic:11037”]
Two simple questions for you:

Should crusaders that have 8 solo non-season clears at GR 150 be nerfed?

Given past history and the game producer’s posts, do you think AoV crusaders will be nerfed in patch 2.6.8?
[/quote]

  1. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest, bring other classes up to scratch.
  2. Quite possibly, though he did mention it was ‘something to look at’. But even a barb nerf, with only less than handful of outliers isn’t much to go on. I feel like you’re might be grasping at straws on some of Matt’s statements.

Your sentiment here contradicts your one here:

You state you have no problem with WW being able to reach 140+, but then base your reply above on Dark’s assertion that it’s one of the least technically demanding builds. He clearly has an issue with this build being able to clear what it can based on it’s lack of how many keys you must mash. You’re basing your reply on top of his, without stating otherwise, which implies you’re in agreement with his sentiment.

Can you please answer my question now?

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243

Why should your view trump mine or others who want better balance? You should present your case as I mine.

Once you know how to use the API (and some skills in excel), it does not take very long to do the analysis. I did most of it while watching TV one night. I am tired of misinformation being propagated. The more informed posters can be the better.

During the PTR and thereafter, there was considerable speculation about the top clears would be. As you know, I made a prediction that was widely vilified.

Did you read his latest posts from December?

For barbs you can check out post #50 and #53 in this thread that have links to multiple posts in the past where I advocated for buffs to barbs (and monks). I have also advocated for nerfs to wizards. You can use the search function if you need to.

244

It’s a sport I just can’t get into. A game of 4 x 15 minute quarters that takes five and a half hours to play. As an Aussie watching sports we’d have run out of beer by quarter time, had a brawl before half time, sobered up by three quarter time, and missed the final quarter because we went to the pub to get more beer. :joy::joy::joy:

Sure do. I’m all good where I am thanks. No direct fire danger but we have been blanketed in smoke on and off for about three months. I’ve been reading that we’ve currently been ingesting the same amount of smoke as a pack a day cigarette smoker, which is fantastic as an asthmatic.

But I’ve got it pretty easy, family members have been evacuated multiple times, 20+ people dead, including recently 3 US people aboard a fire bombing plane that went down, estimated more than half a billion animals lost.

The size of the area burnt is hard to describe to people, that don’t understand the geography of Australia .

That the fires have been burning since August is even harder to explain to them.

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245

LoL…priceless.

You are obsessed with trying to get people to agree with your idea of balance! I was truly laughing out loud at that statement.

Says the guy who believes his analysis and opinions trump all others…classic irony.

Well played.

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246

Nice deflection, dodging my question with my own question… We call that spin over here.
You see, you’re not winning me or anyone over, you ask people to answer your questions, but can’t answers others. A constructive discussion is where questions and answers are exchanged mutually. I’d still like an answer to mine.

Who is propagating misinformation?

Yes i recall, and you were right in the end, though there aren’t hoards of barb players clearing 141+ like was predicted.
You were wrong about the level of balance that blizzard were trying to achieve until Matthew posted and clarified it. If i recall correctly, you assumed the mark was GR140. My point is, people on both sides of this debate are right and wrong about different things, including yourself, despite your knowledge on how to extract data.

The nerf barb squad only started piping up again when GR146 was cleared.
What did you think when the lamentation nerf went in after dark cleared that 140?
It was that clear that resulted in the Lamentation nerf, one that blizzard openly admits it overshot. This is what I believe a lot of barbs and probably crusaders are trying to avoid happening. Last time it happened, barbs were left in the scrap heap for years.

This makes me believe, a lot of these nerf posts are only popping up because people want to feel vilified against people that don’t share the same view as there own, people need to put pride aside.

Possibly, please link me

Sure I’ll check these out