I think the Rathma build should be nerfed by 6 to 8 tiers, but I also think that the command skeletons could see half of the damage buff that army does to give the possibility of a new build, specifically focused on Kill Command for a new unique gameplay experience to the skeletons. It would also make it easier to start off with this build, giving it some type of way to play lower rifts a little faster but a good enough nerf to army to be fairly balanced. I don’t think the skeletons should be as strong as that would be redundant… What do you think ?
I think it’s amazing how blizz designed a class set that uses a billion minions that collectively do zero damage in any non-trivial content.
Technically Untrue, command skeletons alone can deal with monsters at T16 pretty fast heh.
The pun aside, i reckon the very first necromancer rathma speed runs 110+ were based on command skeleton, it was fun, cant remember what happened to it, but it surely was fun when first introduced.
You argument that rathma doesnt work for Low GR speed runs is invalid, even in current season 29 with paragon cap i was running solo speed 120-125 with rathma in under 4 minutes very easy, thats thanks to 200% area damage paragons, and in the next season rathma is absolute top 1 build for solo play, so it will work fine for low levels too
It would make sense that you could play command skeletons with a set, preferrably rathma for them to do damage, because with the jesseth set and the rathma set, they respawn fast and attack fast. Them not being as strong as army of the dead but still useful for GR90s would make it a fun build to play and yet satisfying.
combined with the soulshard pet gem this season they could do well.
Right ??? I think that it really should be a thing, it’s a real missed opportunity.
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Without empower + captain synergy. Army CD is long enough to derail any 20k paragon clear in NS into oblivion. s30 1k paragon normal gears rivals if not greater than any 20k paragon in ns, therefore it is not rathma that needs nerfed, it’s this synergy. Now, any build that uses anguish + captain + empower is way more broken than its ns version, including natalya, condemn, roland etc you name it. Sure Roland etc builds are subpar and such broken synergy actually prevent its base power balance in base game. Sure at this stage, season is the focus but who to say altar is permanently NOT going to present in NS? And do blizzard really ignore NS players entirely?
End of day it is not only Rathma that is the outlier, every anguish + captain + empower synergy is this outlier.
I mean even in ns rathma is a bit of an outlier with a 3:58 (that didnt even have channeling pylon) solo 150 clear, it should rly be nerfed a bit.
You’re forgetting the fact that single target damage it’s one of the best in the game and has been since it’s changes ? The original change in PTR gave more diversity with the set and I can understand why they did what they did to a degree. Point is, I am not the only person mentioning a Rats nerf… A lot of the community is, I am a rats player and I am still saying it needs a nerf. 3.5k paragon can solo a 150 fine, it’s a hard push at 2k and bareable… 20k is gonna make any character broken… Let alone Rats, should we even mention Burning Carnival ? It was very good and got nerfed 2 seasons later. It got nerfed again just this PTR and it felt without reason in comparison to rats… Take perspective of all other necro builds. I agree with blood nova and corpse explosion changes, I just wish more builds would arrive out of it… and with recent changes ? It’s not like I am asking for something unusual that a lot of people wouldn’t already see from diablo 3.
In seasons yes, not in NS. Again what makes Rathma broken on PTR is anguish + captain + empower synergy, not the base build it self. The build is hopeless against trash. You have 600 paragon in NS, when will you get 11 - 20k? For your request on 6 - 8 tier nerf, Rathma wont hit 150s for 99% of player base. There’s 14x150 clears on EU, 2x150 clears on NA and 7 150 clears on KR… that’s a total of 23x 150 clears world wide from average 11-20k players and 6k paragon on this list clears 14:50+
When you compare with s28 altar, the lowest paragon is 2050 with 14:50 clear, 1/3 of paragon. It reflects on rank 1 2:21 @ 11k only. 11k paragon average 6-8 min clear in NS.
As a result, it has 527x150 clears in s28.
500+ vs 23 150 clears, season vs NS activity doesn’t fully explain this huge gap.
What does the captain synergy provides & affects CDR?
With only captains and dominant CDR rolls on gear, average CDR on stat is 50-52%
Add anguish, its 64% or 70% depending on 10 or 15 stacks used
Add empower on top, it becomes 76 - 85%
Add channeling on top it becomes 95-96%
@ 52% CDR your army resets at 3.5s ish depending on revive minion type and if 1.36 APS 36f cmd skeleton or 1.63 APS 30f cmd skeleton BP, @ 64% it resets in 1.5s ish. Anguish is a 2x frequency multiplier as well as 1.64/1.52 on captain CDR dmg multiplier results a net 2.16x ish multiplier on CDR alone, it self is 4.9 tier buff ignore the other anguish benefits.
Empower assuming no anguish turns 52% CDR into 76%. At this rate, your army resets once every sec on minimum, its net 4x multiplier buff alone roughly equates to 8.8 tiers.
combining both I ve managed hitting 14 army in 12s @ 82% CDR, thats a rough 4.9x or 10 tier buff ignoring ALL altar dmg nodes and other shard benefits.
Therefore the outlier is empower shrine, not rathma it self since this shrine affects balance on ALL captain builds including natalya etc outlying performances. 2:14 4 man at sub 2k paragon? ok, a 3 man natalya with 2 supports 4:51 clear sub 2k.
20k with this time clear, you have to average the clears and take median paragon / clear time to determine outliers. Doesn’t he stands out so unique with the only sub 4 clear and all other clears are 7 min +? if the build is OP, there would be more 20k paragon’s pushing it vs this only 1. Most rathma 150 clears are done with 11k, mid low NS paragon.
A build when nerfed isnt coming back. Look at Burning Carnival, especially Mundunugu.
Deep dive the perspective on captain + empower synergy a little more plz.
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