No skills should directly affect other players imo. No group buffs, no healing others etc. It might seem limiting, but each build should be their own thing, not something to carry others with.
Heaving heals are fine, and if they only work on yourself and your summons, they can even be somewhat powerful (although healing and health regen in general should be extremely nerfed).
It gets more like a religious discussion, forcing your views onto others. If you do not enjoy the meta dont play the meta, there are people who do enjoy the meta, blizzard wont remove it, get used to it, get over it, we have had a meta with supps almost from the start of seasons.
You sure are widely defensive on the topic.
No one has asked for it to be removed, people have only voiced their opinion on the concept.
And you are all widely offensive about it. My defense is play your own way, im not the one saying remove from this game.
Seems like alot of people want it removed in this thread⌠As a meta enjoyer, i found the thread kind of one sided.
Wanting and asking are two very different things. Iâm under no illusion that anything substantial will change with D3, I can still have an opinion on the matter.
It was Consecration / Bathed In Light which gave a 24 yard 48K Life Per Second circle which, at the time, stacked, i.e. if the Crusader dropped two of them, anyone stood in the overlap of two circles was getting 96K Life Per Second, three circles was 148K and so on. The ability was changed so that the healing from multiple Consecrations no longer stacked. Itâs at that point the Monk got the healing role in the META.
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I canât understand what would be left for group play if all actions helping others would be removed from game. Iâve been playing a few times with a group where everyone has same role, and it has every time been extremely boring.
Itâs totally natural in this kind of game for some characters to be weaker killers and maybe taunt, lure, weaken by poison, chill etc mobs so that they can be killed more easily also by party members. Also heal. No need to remove all support abilities.
The real problem comes more from the magnitudes of the numbers. Z characters are million or billion times weaker for making dmg, which just doesnât feel realistic. Also itâs quite bad for immersion to see barbarian pulling and pixeling hundreds of mobs in two seconds with physical abilities (while this is not directly numbers, itâs similar way of overdoing it).
And low lvl demon hunter causing high dmg multipliers by holding one button without any danger to get any incoming dmg at GR 150 (except when it lags)⌠thatâs just stupid mechanics.
Imagine a fantasy book having same kind of party. âThere was a good experienced team going to make world better and kill some really bad demons. But they realized they were probably missing some dmg for slaying these frightening monsters. So they went to nearby city and asked first newbie to go ensnare 100 mobs per second because they couldnât do it themselves. The experienced killers almost died but the newbie could almost sleep half of the time while doing his job just ok. The world was anyway saved on time.â
Iâd be totally fine with the story, if the last hired support guy needed to be the most experienced one and his skill wouldnât be that overdone.
Iâm happy there are different roles, but the required skill and amount of benefits in battle should be somehow a little more balanced.
Correct:
Crusader
- Active Skills
- Consecration
- The healing provided from multiple active Consecrations will no longer stack
With that said, I donât have much issue with support abilities in itself, and/or with folks wanting to go with more support oriented builds. Itâs only problematic imo, when the game (non-mmo type games that is) offers content that expects players to use said builds to progress and/or clear content, and thus making support builds mandatory and that folks who donât want to run with said builds are essentially out of luck. I mean itâs fine for mmos, since with mmos itâs essential to play with other players and support one another in order to clear certain contents.
Now in regards to Diablo 3, I honestly believe that itâs far too late to do any major skill changes/removal, especially when it comes to multiple skills at once. So I wouldnât expect them to ever remove support abilities and/or zdps builds.
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Donât feel bad Chris. There are a lot of people that enjoy meta. Iâm not a fan as I stated in my previous post, but I too am surprised that no more people joined your view in this thread. Itâs all good. I donât foresee Blizzard doing away with zDPS builds. Too many people enjoy playing them.
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Thatâs the ticket. The only times I have left a GR are if it has become obvious I am not going to make the timer. This whole âfishingâ BS is what was never intended, but who is complaining about that nonsense?
I am fine with having support builds in the game. I like playing them in groups. Doesnât mean I donât want to push solo as high as I can go. For those who think support is stupid, ask yourself this:
Can a group of 4 fire monks complete a GR150? I have no idea what the answer is, but if so many fire monks can solo 150, 4 together should be able to do it, right? So maybe support is not needed? I donât know.
Yes (assuming they were sufficiently high level and sufficiently geared). It would be slower than 2 dps + 2 support (with comparable paragon and gear to the first group) though. The 2 supports bring a larger damage bonus and more utility than the damage from 2 additional monks could provide.
To illustrate, consider this simpler example: a zdh in 2p brings a bigger DPS buff than a second monk can provide. In 2p, 1 monk + 1 zdh is considerably stronger than 2 monks.
A zdh brings something a 2.8-3x multiplier between Odysseyâs End, other sources of additive damage (e.g. Toxin, maybe Strongarms), the Wolf buff, and the crit buffs from Iceblink and Wind Chill.
So a monk with a zdh does almost 3x damage compared to what that same monk does solo.
2 monks together would do about 2x damage compared to what 1 monk does solo.
So a monk + zdh is considerably stronger than 2 monks. Enemies in 2p GRs have 2xHP compared to solo, so 2 monks (with comparable gear and paragon) should perform similarly in 2p compared to one of the monks solo (they do 2x damage and enemies have 2x HP). Maybe slightly worse actually with the loss of follower buffs like Oculus/Nemesis/Flavor. But one of the monks plus a zdh should perform better in 2p (the monk does ~3x damage and the enemies have 2x HP) compared to what the 2 monks could do or what either monk could do solo.
Thatâs sort of the crux of the issue. And I agree with Oblivion here.
I donât have a problem at all with zdps builds existing. Some people find those builds fun, which is cool. More playstyles is always a good thing.
But ideally supports would be balanced better with dps characters.
A zdh is a gigantic walking (spinning?) DPS buff, and adding a zdh will always make the group stronger vs. adding another dps character. In an ideal world, that would be balanced better so that adding a zdh would be better balanced, and you could choose to add a zdh or add another dps without really gaining or losing too much.
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I dont really care what happens to Diablo 3, so while yeah, zDPS should be removed from D3, and never have been added in the first place, the place where it really should be removed, or rather, not added, is Diablo 4.
You can still have different roles. One person can be tanky, and try to position himself between monsters and the other players. There should be no concept of aggro/threat of course, so it would be hard, but that is fine. Positioning yourself well should be how you tank.
Of course, there is also CC on enemies, that does benefit everyone.
Melee and ranged dps can also play different roles. AoE or single target focused builds have different roles. Etc.
That doesnt mean there has to be a âholy trinityâ of tanks, dps and healers. Nor roles that only exist to buff others.
It isnât really about meta. There will always be some kind of meta. It just shouldnât have zDPS in it.
Which is the problem exactly.
While I want zDPS entirely gone (simply have no business in an A-RPG imo), it would be an acceptable middleground if 4 DPS was equally powerful to 2 DPS + 2 zDPS.
If that was the case, then zDPS existing would be much less of an issue.
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Iâve been saying this since the first time I heard the term.
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okâŚ
so if 2 supports are out of the meta then⌠2 guardian and 2 trash killers as meta?
and whoâs going to assume the grouping role? assuming all dps can tank the damage at high gr.