Making a static overworld feel alive

General Discussion
1

Hi everyone,

In another thread, discussion of Diablo IV’s overworld being static lead me to think of this idea of a static overworld that doesn’t feel static. Of course we need day/night and simple weather effects, but what about more random/cyclical effects that change the feeling and even events/enemies? What about the Dry Steppes having random sandstorms that not only look awesome and affect vision and gameplay, but also leave an impact on the environment for some time?

There is so much that could be done to make areas that are static in terms of layout, feel different and fresh, despite being fairly recognizable.

Examples of this concept would be the Dry Steppes having a chance to create an intense sandstorm that lasts for minutes (give or take), affecting the look and visibility of the world, as well has having certain enemies hide during this storm, while others come out and attack, and perhaps even the storm applies a de-buff to everyone, not just you, but enemies as well (or maybe they are just different enemies that are made for these moments and balanced accordingly). Then when the sandstorm is over, certain things are covered/uncovered and there is a different look to areas. New dungeons appear, while other areas are hidden from sight.

This could also apply to snowy areas in a similar fashion, having snow build up and melt away, affecting not only the looks, but the visuals and sounds of the world, enemies, and gameplay. You could also go beyond weather/natural phenomenon’s and have some enemies be more dynamic and alive feeling, such as some more human enemies interacting with each other or their environment, while more monster like enemies might be sleeping/ ruffling around in the grass, etc.

I don’t believe many games have done, and if they have it has probably been in different genres/not to the same extent. I realize this would be a fair amount of work if implemented the way I envision it, but even on a more simple level I think it would be very cool to have a non-randomly generated overworld feel alive and changing. Keep in mind I am not saying the world is changing dramatically every 5 minutes or saying that it should follow real life seasons, though the changes should last for a noticeable period of time, so that when you come back to an area it may look different than when you were there before.

I can think of some games that do somewhat similar things, such as Animal crossing having seasons and weather, which affect the look/sound, NPCs, events, fishing, etc. I of course am not saying I want it to be the same as this or that we want fishing and such in Diablo, just an example. Then there are more weather/short term examples of this in games such as Battlefield 4, where a massive storm turns a beautiful tropical island into a rainy mess where trees are bending, waves are crashing, and after the fact the environment is kind of torn apart and altered for the rest of the play. This could be really cool, though things like broken trees might be hard to do in a persistent world with having them come back, but at least it could have debris and look more messed up for a while.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you have any ideas that could be added to help make the world feel alive?

4 Likes
2

Not sure if seasons are necessary since we don’t even know if there are traditional seasons on Sanctuary. But weather definitely and I do believe they mentioned something about that in 2019. Something like puddles will grow larger during rain storms.

They need to revisit making camps static. They should have a chance to fall. Notice goes out that x camo is under attack. You can choose to help defend it or allow it to get razed. If you defend it the camp can offer discounts on services provided for a little while. If it gets razed, you have to clear it out again.

Secrete locations. The map could have spots for multiple secret locations that reset daily/weekly. It’s up to the player if they want to seek these out and find something potentially great.

Day/night cycle only if it change while you play it not too fast. Don’t want to run into a WoW issue where I was only playing at night or a typical open world game where an hour lasts a min.

4 Likes
3

if they want to take the effort, it would help a lot
tide could make certain areas unaccessable at times/reveal areas that are usually hidden
you can do a lot with this

3 Likes
4

Yes, another great idea! Actually reminds me a bit of Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, but this would obviously be a much better/dynamic version of it.

5

Some good ideas, though I personally think making liberating towns permanent is a good idea. They can have smaller more dynamic camps that are optionally shifting if they want, but I personally think constantly saving a town would become annoying fast. Not saying you are wrong, just my personal preference.

Secret locations are definitely nice to have. I liked them in Grim Dawn.

6

Enviromental traps could also add to making the world feel alive along with weather.

That said:

I actually like this idea, as it adds replayability to camps. I honestly don’t want camps or almost any content really to just be a “do it once and that’s it” kind of thing. So having the option to defend camps would be great imo.

2 Likes
7

quicksand rooting you would be cruel :smiley:

8

Exactly, if you also have some enemies attacking you while you’re rooted, it could become a dangerous situation. Each different region could have their own enviromental trap. For example, a fiery areas could have magma or fire pits that induces a burn debuff that has you take damage while also lowering your defense. A ice area could have deep patches of frost that slows characters while also having them take more damage from physical, cold, and fire attacks. The list can go on and on.

1 Like
9

snowy mountains could straight have an avalanche rolling down hitting you and applying frost effects :smiley:

1 Like
10

Ooh, I hadn’t consider that one.

11

World can be alive a) aesthetically (visual side) and b) technically (gameplay side). Most important is B, because A gets old too fast and doesn’t really matter for diablolike games. A is certainly nice to have as it adds to the atmosphere, but the major question will always be: Why should I travel/explore the land at all - from a gameplay perspective? Just because there in Dry Steppes there is that endgame dungeon and here in Scosglen there is another? Sorry, this is no different even from Diablo II and this big open world offers nothing new at all in this case. “Camps” looks like something fresh, but again, if these are unlocked and here is your gold xp reward, a WP, and npcs to trade with – again this is no different from the ancient Diablo II. There must be much deeper mechanics to make it all interesting. For example, factions fighting each other to control as many camps/towns as possible, and you can interfere somewhere somehow, help someone, ruin plans, etc. How about equpping guards with super cool armor/weps you find, so they can resist any attacks from monsters or rogue factions? D4 Devs should invent something to make it all interesting, it is up to them ofc what it can be, but primitive gameplay decisions like: here are camps for you, here are pvp grounds for you - sorry, this ain’t gonna work in 2020+.

Secrete locations. The map could have spots for multiple secret locations that reset daily/weekly. It’s up to the player if they want to seek these out and find something potentially great.

Key words: “potentially great” - because, if this is done incorrectly, people will just grind their “gr 88 fasts” or “baalruns-1427” to get everything “potentially great”. Why should I spend my time on looking for these secret areas? Just to get another “sparkling chest” with 0,0000312% to get some random legendary/unique? If there are secret areas they must offer something really valuable for attention from the gameplay perspective.

Bounties in D3, if we ponder a bit, are really interesting small side quests. But people hate them, because they don’t play bounties to listen to these small stories or to participate in these npc events. People hate them because mechanically they are as primitive as it can be and thus feel so boring. I’m really worried that D4 open world will be as shallow and primitive as D3 bounties.

1 Like
12

Camps should serve as waypoints, and it would be nice to be able to go back to town without having to repeat the saving process over and over. If a town is haunted by spirits and you take care of the spirits, it should stay that way. Now, there could be other outpost camps that are more dynamic and serve as a constant struggle. I think that would be a good mix.

13

i guess there can be a lot of singleplayer world bosses all over the open world, not just in dungeons
the question is just, without dedicated drops, what makes you move between them instead of just always fighting the one easiest for you or most rewarding

14

I mean, even if you lost a camp, there’d still be the main towns that you can go to for whatever needs you require, so it’s not like losing a camp would mean you’d have no town. Also, losing a camp doesn’t have to also result in the loss of the waypoint, in fact the waypoint could still be active to allow a person to quickly travel back to the campsite area. So honestly, I wouldn’t see any problems with potentially losing camps considering, one, the loss would be temporary and can be overturned (just as it could be when it comes to reclaiming the camp), and two, the camps don’t offer any services that’s unique to a specifc camp.

This would be great actually. Because as it stands, simply reclaiming a camp site and having it turn into a permanent town spot is dull imo. But having the potential of enemies (be they demons, beasts, or opposing human factions) attempting to take back the camps through various means would add to the fun. For example, there could be a quest line where a faction of dark mages would send in a spy to the camps where the spy would secretly attempt to open a demon gate in the camp. And you’d have to prevent it otherwise, the camp could be lost.

Not to mention having the option to supply the camp with weaponry and such to better defend themselves would go a long way towards customizing the camps. But in short, there’s a myriad of things that they could do with the camps instead of just having them be a complete it once kind of content.

15

Towns are different. Camps are much smaller. But I’ve always had this idea of enemies raiding local places and taking them over if not enough people help out in MMOs. Losing access to quests gives, special trainers and vendors until a successful reclaiming happens. Obviously the longer it takes the more computer NOCs will come to help out so that it will eventually be win back. But I’ve always wanted to see something like that. Camps could fill that role.

16

This concept was used in Witcher 3. One of the Witcher folks is working questing and such for Diablo 4. Maybe they can raise the bar somewhat.

17

I didn’t find W3 events entertaining. But it was okay, because that game is all about its main storyline and some peculiar sidequests. Diablo is different though, as even main storyline is always secondary. So they need much more creativity to make openworld events interesting.

18

I agree with you, I hope they succeed in creating that type world!

My fear is it morphs into a MMO of sorts. I really can’t see me liking that.

19

I doubt Blizz will do that - at least not with D4 definitely (even taking into consideration all possible add-ons / content patches). If they want to make more money out of it, I don’t see them going a way different from POE. Just like POE they will probably end up selling tons of cosmetics and things for personal hideout, but not more than that, as the community is too conservative. All kinds of mmo practices will be booed.

1 Like
20

In what ways? They have been pretty clear that this isn’t an MMO. They don’t even call it that. Look at DI. They openly call it an MMO, it has tons of populated areas, unlike D4. They have tons of structured group content, unlike D4 which has none. DI has a lot of public events going on where anyone in the area can join, unlike D4 which has world bosses and some local events, both limited in size.

Yeah, it will have a shared persistent world. Yeah it may have leaning of MMO systems(which were another games before and after MMOs) like gatheringnmats from the overworld, clans/guilds, and instanced content.

But I highly doubt it will venture into MMO territory. I could see D5 going that route and let me try to explain. I think DI is the testing grounds. We know it will do well in the east. I think they are watching how well it does in the west.

I think they will track Bnet accounts to see how many are playing DI and D4 ad compare in game activities. If they see a significant amount of crossover between players participating in social activities in both they may venture in that way.

WoW is tuckering out. It still has a ways to go. Lost Ark, despite being a grindy Korean ARPG, is or was incredibly popular and in high demand outside the east. D4 has the opportunity to end the eternal conflict once and for all and allow the franchise to spread the infinite dimensional planes. An MMO could serve as a good vehicle for that.

Not that I think they would be bold enough to end the EC, nor do I think there will be enough crossover or concrete evidence for the mainline Diablo series to go full MMO. I could see it happen.