Make Diablo 4, a Diablo game. A Real old school LoD player

General Discussion
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Diablo 4 team and Blizzard, a message from a previous passionate Diablo 2 and D2:LoD player, please take heed! I’m writing this in hopes it will be forwarded to someone on the development team, as a very important warning. If some of this comes off harsh it is in respect for what Diablo used to be, before the butchery that was diablo 3 (the thought of that game having a diablo title to it really makes my stomach churn).

I have a lot of problems with blizzard as of late, from being the game industry’s innovators, to imitators and most painfully this “please all attitude, make the game for everyone” approach. Who is your target audience for Diablo 4 and what are the core aspects that carved the name Diablo’s in gaming history? This is a topic i could write forever about. However, at this point in time lets focus on a few things you are on the fence about implementing or how to implement. Trading, and PVP. I am very passionate about Diablo, since it played a huge part of my childhood, and the thought of these 2 major aspects of the true Diablo game not being respected really frustrates me.

Let’s start with PVP.
You can not make a diablo game for everyone. That wasn’t the intent of any great game in the history of gaming. This blizzard trend of forming peace pipe developer circles, moaning on and on how to “please everyone man, it comes from the earth” really angers me. This is diablo, this isn’t pokemon 2020 or some other mickey mouse disneyland video game. This game is suppose to be brutal, and battle ridden. No restrictions on PVP besides for towns(like it used to be), PVP can be enabled everywhere, THAT is one of the core aspects that gave diablo 2 “that feeling”. Do not listen to the carebears, they will destroy you. I beg you to talk deeply about this, and value feedback from old school gamers who played the hell out of diablo 1&2:lod.
Note: I remember fondly of doing a mephisto run, a barb joining, bum rushing us and wiping our entire party. It was one of the best moments i had playing in the diablo franchise, the 3 of us trying to take out this one GODLY barb. DO NOT LISTEN TO THE WHINERS!!!

Trading.
Trading added a huge amount of community flavor to the Diablo series and was a core aspect of the game, and what made it great. Free channels, and open trading between players, i look back on this fondly compared to what diablo 3 is now, an empty husk. When you decided to not have trading in diablo 3, you basically shot yourself in the leg. All old school gamers understand why you are now on the fence about Trading in game. 3rd party websites, selling gear for real money, and BM traders. You can not punish the name of diablo because of this, you did it last time, DON’T DO IT AGAIN. If you enable trading across the board no restrictions, and i hope to god you will if you want to make a huge comeback, there will be 3rd party websites selling gear. F**** it, let it happen, it’s not worth taking away a core aspect from this game. Let. It. Happen. Focus on making a great game, not getting back at these “3rd party companies”.

I would give my right nut to have a successful real DIABLO game. Please do not repeat the same mistakes as before, trading and pvp open for all. Don’t like it? Play another game, because these are some of the fundamentals that made Diablo, Diablo. Do this Blizz, and you will have another epic game again.

I also want to bring up something a bit off topic. I remember in the early days of Diablo 3 development, the forums were filled with what i call “fake d2 players”. I was blown away how many of these LIARS were on the diablo 3 forums of early development. Completely talking out of their a**. Diablo 2 players who claimed they played the game a lot, but were either wikipedia kids, played the game single player, very little online, or completely lying. I remember going back and forth with these guys, who an actuality, had no idea what D2 was about or what made it great.

Anyway guys, here we go. I don’t know about everyone else, but i’ll be grinding my teeth until release. I’ll tell you one thing though, no way i’ll pre-order this, and if they don’t enable full trading, and full on open world pvp, i won’t be buying it. Another d3 mickey mouse, bugs bunny clone. In that case, when you fail again, do us all a favor, do a remaster of d2:lod and sell then sell the Diablo license to a company that doesnt have a carebear, please everyone, softcore, kid game attitude.

Other important mentions:
No one character fits all. No more resets on skills/stats.
Bring back stats, make them permanent

TLDR; It’s important to understand what features/aspects made the game successful, not what what was the bi-product features that arose after the initial success. Stick to this philosophy and you win, PVP open, no restrictions on trading, stats and real permanent choices.

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This is long winded, tldr.

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they need to bring back Matt Uelman and David Brevik for the development of D4. with the intense heat Blizzard is taking from the Hong Kong fiasco. this would be a good PR move (which they won’t do because they are only in it for the $$$).

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Go play diablo 3 man, what are you doing here reading this?! :slight_smile:

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You start off with your life story and say you want someone to forward your post up to the developers, like they’re going to sit around a meeting room and look at your post together.

Just get it out man, get to the point.

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Excellent post, hopefully it finds Blizzard.

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Get to point, I played diasblo 1 as a kid and it is lovely to see the direction, atmosphere, tone, etc going back to its roots. This is the first presentation, no doubt there will be many changes throughout its time to release. chill.

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I don’t understand where you and Seeders are coming from. The point is clearly written. You guys are acting like a bunch of weird riddelin starved modern day movie critiques. If you have the attention span of a 11 year old, then i can understand how you would view something such as this post to be a “lifestory”, “omg so long, lul #smartphone #ipad #wikipedia #isupportd3” #pog. But as usual, d3 fans are “chilled out”. Well i’m hoping for something that strays very far away from what diablo 3 is, and never look back. We’ll see what happens, but at the end of the day if they don’t implement these core aspects, it won’t be a Diablo game, Just another mickey mouse game for current d3 players who are happy with the game, and hardly touched d2:lod.

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Great post. Everything you said was completely on point. I’ve been playing the Diablo series since 2001 and completely understand your feelings for this game. I think Blizzard needs real feedback from players who are older than 14 (because I’ve seen some questionable threads already) as well as players who have played all 3 Diablos. The people defending Diablo 3 most likely have only played Diablo 3 and they need to understand Diablo 3 isn’t Diablo.

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Could you feel the passion of our childhood flow through your veins when it was announced? Lets wish for the best, and push hard for this on the Diablo 4 upcoming forums.

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This is my own personal post about what my personal feedback is. Check it out and I would love your feedback on what I said since we share the same feelings.

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Alright and I played the hell out of D2 (and D1) and had a 99 Necro as an example of how much I played it. PvP anywhere isn’t really a necessary element to the game. Preferably? Probably; however, it isn’t needed and with the Open World bosses I’m not even sure then if I am being honest.

I have fond memories of PKKing as well. Being a HC player though and those world events sound like a BAD mixture of ever having an actual functioning system or it’ll force Clans in HC to become Guild Raid events for protection.

Agree more or less. I could see a ‘limited trade charges’ idea even though I don’t love it. The only items that, if done right, could be cool to actually make BoP is if Mythic items (1 per character) are designed to grow and be modified by the player as a ‘soul item’ that changes with you. That could be a very cool avenue where trading might actually be detrimental but… in general I think trade > no trade

Disagree here. Allow for resets but make it something of value to give up. So a fairly rare item that allows it. This would do two things:

  1. Make resets have a price that is actually felt
  2. Adds an additional trade currency (probably)
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First of all, i appreciate the vast majority of players so far on these forums, being pro Diablo. This promotes real and constructive feedback that has merit in this franchise. Furthermore, these conversations could also potentially bring back memories of diablo, that might spark a change in opinion here and there (100% speaking for myself, although some places i just can’t budge), as long as we are on the same page.

Happy to further this conversation with you, fellow 99 player. I had a hammerdin 99 and a Javazon 97, good times. I still feel like we should push for open world pvp, so in this aspect our opinions differ. Even in a World Boss scenario, tps would be locked just like it was in D2 and they would have to run to that area, which would take time. However, to be honest, i could settle with minor limitations such as this, world boss engagements lock hostility until cleared. I wouldn’t be happy though, and in all honesty, i’d be scared. Because give and inch and the softy disneyland kids will take a mile.

I could see how this could be problematic, but what really are we talking about here? I mean, in diablo 2:lod there were similar obstacles in Hardcore, that i remember very well. Where gear wasn’t sufficient enough to kill Baal in 20 seconds on Hell. You get a hostility check, you auto tp before the monkey can get to you. I remember that feeling of anxiety, and i fu***** loved it and feelings like this really made Diablo such a memorable, RAW experience, and that’s what really made it great.

I think on where i’m trying to get at, is that personally i will keep pushing for no limits on trade. That’s what if memory servers, added a ton of flavor to Diablo, and memory serves well since it was a once in a lifetimes kinda of game experience, i know you understand that as well. However, once again if they settled at a point where a feature such as you mentioned “soul items” that grew with you was kind of thing, i would be happy with a BoP on that single item. My stance and what i feel should be all diablo fans stance, push hard for features that made diablo great, and to not relent. We relented during D3 beta forums, we were docile, and look what happened my man…

Don’t you remember man, having multiple necros all serving a specific purpose with specific stats built around future items. I treasure games like these, stats of no return. Dig up past legendary games, you’ll find a a similar trend here. The downfall of gaming is “make things as convenient as possible, games for everyone”.

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The one difference, from what I understand of D4’s world environment scenario, is that no matter what I was doing I could make the game Private as to not have to worry about that stuff at the time. This would essentially allow me to ‘sandbox’ the game so I could focus on MF runs or just clearing difficult areas or helping a clan mate out without having to worry about a PKer jumping in. The lack of this ability to ‘freeze out’ the outside world when I don’t want to deal with the BS is what it is… not complaining or endorsing it but it does create issues.

Yes and I actually still have Diablo 3 characters made this way for the sets, lol but yes… I do like there being a price; however, if you remember in D2 the respec option was heavily requested. I think the balance between the two camps is an item which is rare enough to have a real value to it but not Zod rare.

Having respecs have a real value/time commitment I still think would create a feeling of permanence to your choice for, at least, quite awhile while still allowing those who want more ability to change their character without grinding back levels/power a way to get access to it but there would still be a cost that would be felt.

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I think you hit the nail on the head here. Blizzard most important step here is to figure out their target audience and develop around that full throttle unapologetically. If they truly want this to pay homage to d2 it will be mature themed no holds barred pvp.

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Um… PR moves are done for the sole reason of money. What are you talking about? And I don’t know about Matt Uelman, but David Brevik is no longer necessary. I appreciate his huge contribution to the franchise and the genre, but his ideas are now stale and dated. Marvel Heroes is a perfect example of this. There are better, and more creative developers out there. Truth is adding Brevik to the team would be exactly what you said it would be. A PR move. And Pr moves don’t create good games.

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Open World PvP? How would they sell this to their kindergarten playerbase in WoW though?

Never gonna happen. Good times obviously stopped at LoD, if you want something good, start begging for a D2 remaster, thats the only thing we might be so lucky to have them succeed at. A successor to D2 will never come out of Activision.

Its all about the money for them, they need them stocks going up, and that happens through succesful IP sales with fast expansion release rates to keep even the most impatient players spending.

Its science at this point, not emotion.

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They need to scrap any feature when it comes to diablo 3 when developing Diablo 4. They need to have D2:LoD as a foundation and build/refine upon that. They will have an incredible game in their hands.

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YES!!! Thank you! I was just on another discussion about the PvP. I like that someone can come in and kill your whole party. That was part of the fun. I also agree on the trading aspect. That’s why D2 is still better than D3. There is so much to discuss. They need to make the game hard to master not just a grind. More complex talent trees. They need to make it a whole world like WoW. They need to make bosses actually difficult with boss mechanics and I even suggested that 10 man and 25 man raiding should be a thing in the new diablo. Diablo needs a social aspect like WoW. We should need discord or vent to be able to communicate and down bosses. Make killing a boss a big deal. Make death be a big deal. Like I said there is so much to discuss. I feel like a combination of Hardcore Diablo fans and WoW fans should be listened to the most with this new game.

P.S. Last thought here… I didn’t like in D3 that there was such a cookie cutter build that was the best… the go to build for the game. There were abilities i wanted to use, but it didnt make sense to use them. In D2, I could be a frost, fire, or lightning sorceress and each one could be extremely viable and powerful in their own way. Another reason why D2 was great was because of all the different stats such as damage reduction percentages, resistances, hit, etc (honestly, the more the better. The more customization the better.)… Also, forget about D4 is there aren’t runewords and crafting. I also like the idea of a 360 degree view of the character and the environment around it like WoW is. I can live without that though if there is a whole huge a** world to explore that is an open world with a whole realm of players like WoW.

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“full trading, and full on open world pvp”

Amen dude. Diablo is pvp and trading, don’t make another D3, just listen to real d2 fans.
I played d2 for years and everything was about trading to get better gear to pvp. You can take down ubers and baal in hours since the ladder start.