What the different DPS wise, between the two choice here, for a rend/whirlwind build?
Losing Lamentation is an immense loss to damage overall. Even if you had max CDR on every possible slot, you still can’t get quite a 2x damage bonus from Crimsons.
Lamentation, however, gives 2 seperate multierplies - A 2.5x (Already beating best-case-scenario Crimson) pure damage boost, and a 2x damage boost from being able to have 2 stacks of Rend on everything.
In other words, someone who used Crimson INSTEAD of Lamentation will do 25% the damage of somebody with Lamentation but without Crimson. 1/4th. Basically 10 entire GRs behind.
With that said, putting Lamentation in the cube and then using Crimsons can be a DPS gain overall.
What about between this and wearing Lametation and cube Mantle of chanling?
It’s all in the Zodiac Rend guide. [Guide] Zodiac Rend (Season 20)
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Crimsons is Belt, Boots, and Pants. If you want to use Crimson, you HAVE to use the belt slot, as otherwise you lose the 6 piece Wastes bonus.
The issue with Crimson is that it takes 3 pieces - Ring slot, belt, and either pants or boots. Crimson is best with builds that actually benefit from the CDR or RCR, and because Waste uses Zodiac, it doesn’t benefit from either CDR or RCR.
I didn’t read what you guys responded with but you never have a situation of crimson vs lamentation. Lamentation is used in both wwrend builds and is mandatory. The core 6p wastes wears lamentation plus Band of might then cubes mantle. Crimson wears 5 wastes peices plus belt and either legs or boots from crimson. Then you cube lamentation. I see many trying to run crimson plus band of might which is a complete waste.
Long story short
Core plus COE>Crismon plus band of might
only run crimson in speeds 3k plus
only run crimosn push in 5k plus but IMO its 6k plus
That’s not the issue at all Frog’s. The issue with crimson is you lose Band of might. You also need perfect gear and tons of paragon to be able to push with the build effectively. Also remember with the core build we can cube zodiac so it is not a wasted slot. That makes core build closer to crimson then people think. Adding two stat rolls that could be 20% area and 50% crit damage vs crimsons at best 63% damage bonus really diminishes the benefit of crimson. It is still ahead but only when you have the paragon and gear/skill.
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As I’ve gathered from the mechanics of the game savvy people here, you shouldn’t even consider crimson until non seasonal paragons (lots as in 5k+). just look at the top of the seasonal LB with 3k+ paragons and still not using crimson clearing 130+ GR.
I guess I see it as dying isn’t that bad in SC unless your pushing and you die a lot…then your time dwindles.
I think your almost on the right track grim. Almost!!!
First thing is It’s 5k and amazing gear. Hence why IMO it’s 6k as most play multiple classes and so there drops are spread around in various places.
Second In order to push 130 plus it is not a damage issues. It is the skill of the player to know what maps to play and how fast to apply damage on battlefields/festers in order to spawn a great condi. Crimson will not give you a clear core cannot as the condi is still mandatory to get you the clear.
Personally im working on 140 solo. I have had over 10 festers with the lead going into the second map without a single condi or elite kill. Crimson won’t change a thing. Still need a condi for the big lead then hope its enough or pray for a power on boss.
And finally having band of might in this build makes it so the can tank almost anything. As long as you stomp every few seconds you can put all your focus of making those crucial pulls and hardcast rends when you need to. Crimson you literally need to fish for soft trash in order to survive.
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Awesome info! Why I love the barb community on here. Never condescending and always well thought out thanks.
I know all about having multiple characters to gear up…I’ve landed 5 different ones on the LB…my ADD shows in not using one character for too long at a time 
I think that crimson is good for just starting out until you can get some proper gear. That royal ring of grandeur is just a dead item that takes up a slot and brings nothing
Well, it brings 2 parts from a set to an other! More cooldown and more resource cost reduction…and some life regeneration too…
I just wanted to add my 2 cents to this semi old topic.
With Crimson’s and RoRG, until you reach high paragons you will be dropping CoE.
Crimson’s w/o CoE and reasonably optimized gear give you:
- 55%-60 CDR/ increased damage
- 35-40% Reduced Resource Cost/ Damage reduction by default at all times.
- You cube Lamentation to get the full belt benefit
The core build you get:
- CoE which is ~40-50% damage increase depending on roll or cube.
- Mantle of Channeling in cube for 25% damage and 25% damage reduction OR stone gauntlets for toughness.
- Lamentation needs to be worn which requires a good roll.
- Probably around 50% CDR with optimized gear
The way i see it, Crimsons is the best even without CoE because you get competitive damage AND toughness in one package, higher CDR so you dont need bulkathos passive, and its easier to gear for because you dont have to high roll CoE/BoM/Lamentation. Then, once you hit high enough paragon, you can pop in CoE and just melt things.
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