Lamentation - A response from the Devs. Them self 🤔

[Jazz-2357]

ForeverFree, what you’re saying about PTR would be true if not, and I repeat; IF NOT the nerfed version of the belt had been shown at Blizzcon. That’s the key thing to all this commotion because now they’ve seemed to reveal something that shouldn’t be revealed before the patch notes are final.

[ForeverFree-1601]

Everything about the PTR is still true. The PTR does not represent a promise that the devs are bound to keep. It is a test environment, and some things make it out of the test environment, and some don’t.

It is unrealistic to expect and demand that things in the PTR must go into the final version of the patch.

People say, they want an answer as to why something didn’t make it out of the PTR. In this case, an answer is easy to guess: the reason is that the PTR Barb was overpowered.

I know that lot of people don’t like that answer, and I defend people’s right to disagree with Blizz that some of the PTR changes make the Barb OP. Nonetheless, it is wrong to think that the PTR changes represent a promise that the devs are bound to keep.

And yes, it would have been nice if there had not been the accidental reveal about the belt during Blizzcon. It would have avoided the current controversy. But again, the controversy is based on the notion that the belt is being nerfed. It is not being nerfed, compared to patch 2.6.6. Rather it is not being upgraded as it was in the PTR. We need to get away from this idea that something not making it out of the PTR represents a nerf.

Blizz DID promise that they would make the Barb more competitive with other classes. It remains to be seen if they kept that promise. We’ll be able to figure it out in 3-4 weeks.

[Meteorblade-2266]

@ForeverFree-1601

the reason is that the PTR Barb was overpowered

Nope.
With the Bone Ringer nerf Necros can still do 140.
With the Chantado nerf Wizards can still do 141.
With the Lamentation buff Barb did 140.
Without the Lamentation buff Barb will do 133.

With the buff, Barbs are comparable to post-nerf Wizards and Necros.
Without the buff, Barbs are 7-8 GRs behind.

In what way is being roughly equal to other classes overpowered, and yet being 8 GRs behind is considered okay?

[kubark-1410]

This is true only if 140 is the maximum the build could have pushed on ptr. Darkpatator already claimed he could go much higher with no lag, better map and better gear, and he had time to spare. For spin to win the buff is pretty significant without lamentation rend damage bonus. I’m just happy I’ll be able to do t16 right out the gate and push without feeling like I need perfect gear.

[ForeverFree-1601]

@Meteorblade-2266

@ForeverFree-1601

the reason is that the PTR Barb was overpowered

In what way is being roughly equal to other classes overpowered, and yet being 8 GRs behind is considered okay?

First, regardless of whether the new Barb is OP or not, people should not expect that the changes in a PTR amount to promises that the devs are bound to keep when the actual release comes out. That point is the focus of my comments.

Second, we will see what the Barb can or cannot do. I mainly do the WD, and I am painfully aware that the classes are not balanced. I have made it clear that it’s fair for people to disagree with Blizzard’s take on things.

But another point I make is that, Blizz may be afraid that the changes in the PTR might, for example, enable Barbs to do GR 145, while nobody else can. That would cause yet another set of controversies.

It might be better to err on the side of being underpowered than overpowered, because the fanbase doesn’t like to see power taken from them. (Of course, in this case, no power has been given to take away, because the final patch has yet to be delivered.)

[Free-1746]

@ForeverFree-1601

First, regardless of whether the new Barb is OP or not, people should not expect that the changes in a PTR amount to promises that the devs are bound to keep when the actual release comes out. That point is the focus of my comments.

Hey there, ForeverFree.

First of all, nice handle!

Second, I’m forever Free, so expect to hear from my lawyers.

Kidding. Sort of.

Anyway, I completely respect your point about PTRs and development time, but you also need to consider the history between the devs and Barbs: it’s not good. We’ve had numerous last-minute nerfs in the past without any warning, and of course, there was the Mortick’s fiasco. On top of it, we’ve been incredibly weak for a very long time. We were told there would be better communication and that we would receive updates and buffs, and when we finally get them, we find out via leaked BlizzCon images–not through official channels, mind you, but through leaked images–that our shiny new toys are getting nerfed.

However you look at it, this is poor handling of the situation. We had zero feedback in the PTR and zero feedback post PTR, and we still don’t have an official response to the massive GD thread calling for no nerfs. I’ve urged folks to be patient, and I know, directly from Nev, the kind of red tape she has to navigate to post anything on these forums, but that doesn’t change the fact that Blizzard dropped the ball, big time.

PTRs aren’t promises, correct, but they are implicit agreements, and they do offer players a potential glimpse of what to expect. Claiming that we shouldn’t get our hopes up over a PTR isn’t realistic and it ignores the long, weird history between the devs and the Barb community.

So, if folks are chomping at the bits, if they’re angry, and if they demand things from the devs, I support that 100%.

@Meteorblade-2266

With the Bone Ringer nerf Necros can still do 140.
With the Chantado nerf Wizards can still do 141.
With the Lamentation buff Barb did 140.
Without the Lamentation buff Barb will do 133.

Add to the list that DH and WD have recently clared 142 and will clear higher.

The new solo standard is 140 and it took 10k Paragon for Barb to get there. Even with 200%, Lamentation was fine for 99% of players, and if the top 1% with 10k Paragon can push to 145, it’s not a big deal.

[Bassdude-1227]

@Free-1746

Add to the list that DH and WD have recently clared 142 and will clear higher.

Yup - it’s a possibiliy you can add the sader Aegis of Valor in next season unless they nerf that too.

[MasterJay-1651]

@Bassdude-1227

Yup - it’s a possibiliy you can add the sader Aegis of Valor in next season unless they nerf that too.

Watch Sader just smash everyone by 7+ GR’s lol. I mean I guess these devs are confident enough to let that go live w/o another test phase and know it will catch Sader up but those buffs look absolutely insane on paper.

I was hoping they gave Hota / SS a bit more juice, especially if they’re going to stick with a Lamentation nerf.

[Bassdude-1227]

@MasterJay-1651

I was hoping they gave Hota / SS a bit more juice, especially if they’re going to stick with a Lamentation nerf.

We will all see when the patch notes come up. They have said 'We listen to you’.
Solid figures have been produced to show clearly that the lamentation belt brings the barb up to the others and nerfing it takes it 7 GR’s below.
So if they listen, the patch notes will tell all.

[BladeMaster-1305]

It would be nice to see barbs rivaling wiz/dh for a change instead of being thought of constantly as just zbarb and nothing more

Hoping Blizz is actually reading all of this and reverts that belt nerf

[MicroRNA-1507]

@Free-1746

So, if folks are chomping at the bits, if they’re angry, and if they demand things from the devs, I support that 100%.

Meteorblade:

With the Bone Ringer nerf Necros can still do 140.
With the Chantado nerf Wizards can still do 141.
With the Lamentation buff Barb did 140.
Without the Lamentation buff Barb will do 133.

Add to the list that DH and WD have recently clared 142 and will clear higher.

The problem is that the assumption that without the lamentation buff Barb will do 133. What we know is that a high paragon player who invested 3 hours on the PTR at the time was able to clear GR 140 without FoT equipped and 300ms ping. We also know that live non-season clears always exceed the PTR by at least 3 GRs but sometimes far more. If we assume that the 145 you mention is correct, then rend @ 100% gives GR of 141.5.

I do not know how you reconcile the fact that DH and WD recently cleared 142 and will be higher, but turn around and argue that 140 is the top for ww/rend. For DH and WD, these are builds currently that have been pushed by many and presumably have not reached their limit. One player at high paragon clears GR 140 on the PTR and now it is assumed by some that 140 will be the max.

[insidious-1502]

@MicroRNA-1507

but turn around and argue that 140 is the top for ww/rend

@Free-1746

Lamentation was fine for 99% of players, and if the top 1% with 10k Paragon can push to 145, it’s not a big deal.

He stated that it might be 145, so no, he’s not claiming 140 is the top.

[kinderheart-1514]

Maybe the initial PTR lamentation bonus was this year’s out of season April fool’s joke by Blizzard. ‘Lamentation’ literally means: “the passionate expression of grief or sorrow; weeping” and by baiting Barbs with it, then taking it away after a very long time of crapping in the Barb community, they just might be laughing to tears as they are ironically or by design getting exactly that: our lamentation. I just don’t get why Blizzard would drive away their own game enthusiasts…

[Primal-21908]

Rip

From the Barb Community: DO NOT NERF REND

Okay, time for me to be unpopular. All part of the job, though. Hang tight, this is gonna be wordy. We did, indeed, remove the Lamentation bonus in the release client build for Patch 2.6.7, which was the build that streamers and BlizzCon attendees were shown on the show floor. In an ideal world, I would have had a chance to contextualize this change before the convention. Unfortunately, I did not have that opportunity between my other job duties for the show and titles I support (including Diab…

[Jazz-2357]

A slap in the face (not blaming Nevalistis. She’s just the messenger).

[Chimere-2429]

we are concerned we may have overshot it

Even devs arent sure, so it was overshot? Now its undershot, whats next?

What about using some little advanced mathematics to test the damage numbers and dont use whole season for testing if it was right decision, because you are not sure? This is sad.

Who the hell from devs or Blizzard team decided, that charging into wall for gaining raekor buff is fun to play and is our top dmg build for so many seasons?

[anon93475338]

@Primal-21908

Has there been a single bluepost about taking away the belt buff?
Did Blizzard even bother to talk to us about this yet?

Is it really that much to ask for one simple response.

Maybe I’m all wrong about this…
But I sure feel like we deserve some sort of a answer by now.

Any information at all from the Devs.
That’s the people I wish to talk with at least.

Talk about this “small” change.

Edit:
From the Barb Community: DO NOT NERF REND - #1768 by Nevalistis

Rip.

Lol man, they certainly aren’t using math for any of these changes

[Bassdude-1227]

Sometimes a picture says a thousand words:
https://prnt.sc/pvzb2w

[Gasnick-2400]

Speaking of pictures… Balancing the game D3 RoS way…

[Bassdude-1227]

A few of you are turning sarcasm into an art form