Really concerned about the direction of itemization in D4, from what we’ve seen so far. I’m not sure if the team actually has the talent / right individual for itemization system design, who really understands why nailing this aspect of the game is arguably the most important thing.
What we see is a hodge-podge of reductionism (+Attack or +Defense), and forcing players into an archetype (+Angelic) which feels like forcing players into sets.
We see:
Crit Chance
Crit Damage
When we have had endless conversations on forums and in interviews around why this is unmanageable. These should be removed from the game entirely, or modified so heavily that it becomes a real decision to choose one of them over another attribute like “+HP”.
We have full areas designed, creature designs, a playable alpha - without core itemization being implemented. You are banking on wrapping itemization around the other, less important systems. This is completely backwards and makes iterating on the itemization much more difficult.
Item artwork is boring, bland, and lifeless. As Llama mentioned, even the font is off - it’s entirely vanilla.
There must be a healthy balance between D2 and D3 and POE for itemization, but what we are seeing now is far removed from anything that looks like it would create a viable loop. Being able to change talents at any time with vanilla items = setting the game up for complete failure, especially now with users more aware of preordering.
Don’t close the door on completely rethinking the itemization system before considering - deeply - the nature of D2 itemization, what made it so hook-worthy, and what makes PoE the same allure. D3 has a lot of strengths - itemization is not one of them, so you are forced to plug seasons / seasonal goals as the only hook, which keeps a huge chunk of players from reviving interest (self included).
Ah, gotcha - I missed that. Thought it was in alpha.
The problem with having a long way to go on items, to me, is that this should have been the very first thing tackled - nailed from the beginning - before spending a penny on cutscene work. They seem to be doing the same thing they did with D3, and for better or worse, a lot of people were let down, never returning.
This Diablo IV is just a DLC for Diablo III, as I already mentioned.
The factor that most proves this is precisely the complete lack of commitment to the player’s choices, since everyone can be everything all the time, all the skills, all the talents, everything without any kind of decision weight.
The same applies to the items, looking at what they showed in this update is a real bucket of cold water, it’s absurd to show it, it was better if they hadn’t shown anything.
See items in the exact concept of Diablo III, see items being the main point of the builds and with absurd attributes, know that they are again focusing on CC / CD in the process of inflating the damage, observe the philosophy of creating items and see that they are not learned nothing, all of this is very disappointing.
In my mind, it should be set to 0% when a character is created, and depending on stat / talent allocations which include increases to crit chance, only minor increments after that via items.
E.g. “Mark Target” skill for Amazon increases crit chance by 10% across the board. And an item with any +crit chance on it should only have a small percentage increase. Otherwise these two stats get out of hand quickly and require (i would assume) a lot of balancing from the team, taking them away from designing other cool items.
i can understand the “fear”
but this is just a part of D3s horrible itemization
critical hits are part of almost every rpg and are not a bad thing in general
it was bad in D3
Yeah, I think that would make sense. But we already have two items that we’ve seen in today’s announcements which show that they are going to go beyond that threshold if nothing changes, which is already scary.
Mostly agree on everything.
I would give angelic/anchestral/demonic a chance cuz they COULD provide meaningful choices if done correctly (for example like Noxxious suggested. And btw, Noxxious pointed out that Malevolence, Santity and Balance - or something like that - fit the lore better)
Piace \m/
Someone on Rhykker’s video with a similar concern posted D2’s Lightsabre for a comparison. The most interesting thing about it mechanically is a chance to cast Chain Lightning, and most everything else is +damage/stats (but there are more affixes). Of course thematically, it’s a freaking light saber. Yea, it’s cooler in that sense, otherwise I’m not entirely sure what is the great disparity between D2 and D4 items?
Whoever is exploring that “loot generator”, this is a sure way to spoil yourself from the surprise element of the loot hunt, that was likely present in your initial D2 playthrough. Just something to keep in mind when determining that D2 items are superior. (But I understand that people are excited for D4, and maybe they are even using it dutifully to offer the best feedback possible, in which case kudos.)
The “Ancestral/Angelic/Demonic Power” terminology could probably benefit from a bit of trimming, though.
+10% crit damage on a ring may be excessive. That entirely depends on what other rings offer. Things like cooldown reduction could easily be on that same “must-have” status, if it’s big enough?
We cant really say 10% chd is excessive if we dont have a reference.
What we can say is, given the picture, that it exists… but to what extent is the major question? I never cared before but, I can see now how cc and chd takes two stats that otherwise could be something like 2% run walk or 20% chance to cast a frozen nova. who knows. But then, if they do remove cc/chd what will be assigned to improve damage values – crushing blow, bleeding, and what else? Something must take its place … unless, defence, movement and evasion are important for encounters and pvp… hmm.
edit: you did say, it matters what the other ring values are for some relativity.
I don’t understand the strategy in creating these items… I would like to see them keeping it simple. Just come up with a hard border of X% crit Chance at max level with perfect gear. That could be X=50. And then with some easy backwards engineering you can plan the items, balance the crit Chance stats on them easily, without accidentally ending up with 90% crit chance on some chars.
Same hold for damage, health, resistances etc. it feels like the item development is just some trial and error, but the error this way will only be realized, when millions of people play it and find builds, the devs could not find. And all of a sudden we are in a D3 situation again, where only wizards could beat inferno difficulty and some trashy fixes came through, which pushed the game in a completely wrong direction.
It all started with sloppy planning and the naive hope, that players will not brake the game…
One of the easier problems to solve IMO, here’s how could be done and probably not only better for the gameplay but immersion as well:
Separate the Crit stat into two types:
Critical hit (for melee, arrows, and maybe physical close combat abilities)
Multicast (for spells)
Problem solved I’d say :)… Perhaps/probably with lifesteal “mandatory” potential requirement as well
Sustain-proc:
Lifesteal (same as crit, for physical/AA)
Temporary shield barrier (stackable or not, for spells)
Perhaps might use both for physical/melee, but spells would only proc the shield barrier to balance the risk/reward of both mechanics in their respective circumstance
I’m just not onboard with that system, however you slice it. I don’t like feeling pidgeon-holed by “sets” like that; I would rather have a mix/match to make and expirement with interesting builds instead of having to get 5/5 or whatever because it’s a requirement to maximize the build.
