i am concerned about the dash feature in D4
i mean, its a good thing, that they want to bring more action and movement into the game? some oldschoolplayers will probably not like it but w/e
the problem could be
characters usually have movement skills
sorc: teleport
barbarian: leap
hunters: dodgeroll/blink what ever
knights: shield charge
those skills require skillpoints, a place in the actionbar, resources to use
i am worried, that such skills will lose their primary or secondary function, if you can just nonstop dash out of everything, without delay, without cost
i dont know if thats a good idea
Yeah, a lot of people might have the same concerns, that this dodge thing might invalidate defensive statistics, putting in favour dodging glass cannons and making specific to class “dodge skills” irrelevant.
Min-maxers will probably choose passive-like skills over these since not needed.
I hope that thay can achieve this type of balance that it is worth to use these, without feeling like i need something else.
I think these specific class dodge skills like teleport, leap etc. are kind of fundamental to classes and keep it fresh everytime you play different character, leading into diversified playstyles.
It won’t be a problem. See: Path of Exile. They actually added dash type gems for their Legion league. It helped with movement a lot, but they also updated mechanics to take into account players will be using those gems in nearly every build. I suspect D4’s devs will take into account dash being baseline and create mechanics suitably appropriate such that dash doesn’t negate defensive requirements.
but those gems are gems
they have a place in the whole system
i am using leap attack since the first time, i was playing PoE
but the D4 dash is just an extra
noone will need to teleport out of range, or jump or what ever
just dash dash dash xD
it also feels stupid and not very authentical
kills the atmosphere imo. looks goofy
I don’t think it will invalidate another skills. For what I see in blizzcon it has a reaction time after being casted, the animation isn’t so fast, etc…
It will be a balance thing and we have so little information that I feel we just should wait a little bit more to discuss this topic.
I disagree, it’s not as though dodging grants you an iframe (at least not from what I’ve seen). Also it seems that after dodging, characters aren’t able to immediately repeat said action; as such if you dodged into heavy fire, chances are you’re going to get killed or take heavy damage.
This dash is a resource. It locks you into an animation and is slower than walking for general movement. The way it’s implemented in the demo from Blizzcon seems perfect to me, especially if we have proper boss mechanics.
I mean by proxy teleport was the same in D2. Maybe there’s some merit to what you’re saying, but personally the dash seems like it will be more of a trap to new players trying to use it to make the game easier. Its intent seems to be for dodging any given mechanic, and seems genuinely unfit for use in any other capacity. Misuse could get you killed, since it has a wind down period.
teleport was a skill for the sorc and if you wanted to use it on an other char, you had to get a weapon with charges
what i mean is, getting everything for free, is…well…some of you ppl like it
some hate it
It is the opposite, to use dash effectively you will need to play better since you need to dodge using command inputs. It is part of the tactical fight as much as any movement skill.
You act like this was some sort of thing to overcome… and as I recall, the charges were only on the easy runeword. The other one wasn’t hard, either, and could be made somewhere around 40-50? I could be mixing up with Median XL, admittedly on that.
In either case, though, it was a relatively cheap and easy item to get, and imo kind of mandatory. The dash in D4 is not a typical mobility option. It’s a short dash with a small timer that leaves you otherwise vulnerable afterward. It’s not comparable to a mobility skill you’d get from a skill.
The mobility demands of the game: speed, efficiency, maintaining stacks/streaks, keeping up with a team that’s doing the same make mobility skills an essential part of the build. Coming up with a slightly different variant of displacement for each class you create consumes creative space and necessarily punishes some classes more than others (short cds vs not, resource costs, etc). If every player is going to take it in every build, it is no longer a “choice” and can’t add to build diversity. Therefore, bake it into the core kit.
Opportunity cost. I say this in HotS and I used to say it in WoW. What we measure is DPS. The DPS while not attacking is zero. That is a compelling choice. You can choose to move, but it costs you damage you could be putting on your target. There is an inherent balance to that simply based on the amount of time you’re displacing and not attacking which gives a strong incentive not to stop attacking if you can tank. Some builds will choose this. Others will go glass cannon and they’ll have to make that choice or get 1-shot. That does add build diversity and a compelling strategic choice for players.
Baking displacement in as a core mechanic frees up more space on the bar for other skills, contributes to compelling strategy, and acknowledges the essential nature of being able to rapidly move in combat.
One note: If you make it faster than basic movement speed and have no resource cost or cd, players will always use it to move instead of running. There needs to be one or the other applied, so players have a reason to use baseline running.
As long as there is an opportunity cost I am fine with it. As in, using your dash prevents you from doing something else.
If it turned out to be an issue, there are plenty of ways to rein it in.
Maybe it could use a stamina bar, or a short cooldown. Maybe it could reduce resource gain (passive and active) for a second after dashing?
Anyone know if the dash comes with invincibility frames btw? It surely should not. At least then it would need limitations.
My guess is that they will use something similar to what Marvel Heroes did. You had a dash with charges on it and each charge had a cooldown. So a hero like Spider-Man who had I believe 4 charges to his dash could dash 4 times in succession, but each dash had a 2 second recharge cost so using all 4 would have you unable to dodge for 8 seconds. 8 seconds is an eternity in an ARPG on high difficulty. It will be very situational if that is the case.