Inna Monk Nerf - why?

PTR Feedback
1

Been testing out the Water Inna Monk on PTR. I’m almost 800 paragon. My experience playing it is that the nerf has utterly destroyed the build.

The damage reduction from 3000% to 900% is too extreme. The reality is that even 3000% is just O.K./middle of the road compared to other builds with regards to pushing GRs. The build as it stands feels severely underpowered compared to my peers, especially necros, at the same paragon level.

I’m not sure on the process for these decisions, but this needs to be brought back to the table for discussion.

8 Likes
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To not dominate the seson the 4th time in a row? Though 3000%->1500% would have been enough.

7 Likes
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Needs to be brought back to the table for discussion? Dunno what game you’ve been playing, but there’s no discussion involved.

It needed a nerf. Everyone knows it, you included. Did they overnerf? Probably. But that’s usually what happens to OP meta-destroying builds when they’ve been on top for entirely too long.

Go find another build ffs.

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Indeed, bringing the damage bonus down to 900% may be a bit too much but that’s why we do PTR testing, so we can give feedback and the numbers can be adjusted. Inna needed a nerf, that’s a fact.

1500% damage buff would be only ~4.4GR drop rather than the ~7.7GR drop given by the 900% buff.

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It’s still better than Uliana but people keep crying

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I think down to 900% is too much.

Down to 2000% or like you said 1500% is good enough.

Hope the devs make the changes.

And remember to fix the boulders!

2 Likes
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Blizzard nerfed the fire inna monk last season.

So why are you further raping the water Inna monk?

I really am considering not playing D3 any more.

I am so tired of you ruining builds that are decent.

3 Likes
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Any latest updates? Thanks in advance.

1 Like
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I agree completely.

Blizz doesn’t care by the way.

I’m getting tired of D3 and my accounts are worthless now.

1 Like
10

Buff, Nerf, Nerf, Buff. Its the Inna Roller Coaster.

1 Like
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If they didn’t care, we wouldn’t get new seasons or have PTRs… all accounts are worthless in this game, there’s no money to be made in D3 since the RMAH was shut down.

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I think its mostly because inna was too easy to bot with.

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As a Monk main entusiast, I found peace in sit down S27.
The build needed a nerf? Maybe… is fair to burn it to the ground? No way…
But, D3 has a wide and growth player pool, that one player sitting out won’t be missed…

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I am amazed that they created such a great looking game and yet don’t know how to balance the game. Given the age of the game, such extreme nerfing and buffing is asinine. The quote, “don’t fix it if it’s not broke,” comes to mind.

To whoever responded about the Uliana set (with the mindset of “oh well Uliana sucks so why say anything”), the obvious solution is to buff that set - not nerf one of the only viable builds the class had.

All the theorycrafting about “well Inna only loses 9.854 GRs so shuddup” is incredible doltish. If the 3000% was so incredibly OP, then EVERYBODY would be playing Inna water AND be in the GR140+ range. The theorycrafters are only talking about perfect/ideal conditions, and a no-life approach to the game with 6000+ paragon levels.

I’ve also seen people argue, not in this particular thread, but on the same topic: “why should everybody have a viable path to the true end game?” - Because that is the point of the game, fool.

This methodology of nerfing/buffing is likely the nail-in-the-coffin for many fans of the game. I’m not interested in supporting a gaming company that runs purely on profiteering and neglects their player base.

We are customers and it is OKAY to demand excellence when we are handing over money for the product. As it stands, I don’t recommend the game to friends because I don’t think they will find it enjoyable. Blizz COULD make money from this game, but there is something incredibly wrong with the management and driving philosophy behind the decision making. I hope the talented developers find better positions with other game studios because Blizz is no bueno.

This is of course the company that said, “don’t you guys have phones?” Incredibly out of touch with their fan base.

1 Like
15

dmkt quite eloquently explained in another post the real problem was with rock allies, just bringing that skill in line with water monk would have already done the trick of nerfing Inna where it was too strong for pushing as RKG. If after that would think Inna was still too strong pushing, a pretty simple solution would have been to specialize Shenlong’s for Raiment only and up mystic damage on daibo from 120% to 150%, forcing daibo play on Inna.

This would have weakened the strongest Inna build only and with an upped Shenlong dedicated to Raiment only you could also buff a set like Uliana’s without fear it could become too strong with Shenlong or any other monk set for that matter, since Shenlog providing that overall damage will always make it a potential danger with any set, same as Norvalds is for Crusader. For some reason though some people want any Inna build nerfed into the ground or prefer for a weird reason the easy overall nerf to nerfing the problem that also gives other options to improve bad builds more easily. Sam with crusader make Norvald dedicated to one bad set (Rolands?) so you can finally buff crusader builds without over tuning them due to Norvald always being there as a better option.

As far as botting, that should never be a consideration. They will find another build that works almost as good, so no solution at all. Also I would say take an example D2R dev, they did not target botters directly since harder to proof, but the exploit of using maphack which can be easier detected and often go hand in hand. Ban all users of maphack and you might also reduce botting by quite a bit and stop people using another exploit that gives unfair advantage, win-win.

2 Likes
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Entirely too long? When do they nerf Rat’s then? Why not destroy that as well?

While we are at it, destroy all the fun builds in the game that push high in solo or a group.

I will be waiting. Until Rat runs are messed up to force a new meta for speeds that just take over, nerfing other stuff is garbage.

D3, the game that should be an aRPG but is an MMORPG disguised as an aRPG instead.

3 Likes
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This is primarily the problem. The game was designed with a clear MMORPG vision. Never before had an aRPG has such addictive group attractions. Over the years, the game tweaking/leaning back to solo/aRPG, but long term dedicated still cherish that group experience, which frankly speaking pales other big titles such as POE which more time is spent on trading site than actually playing.

He is spot on, but afraid is a glimpse of it. Inna problem started as soon as BotLG first treated Fire Ally as the special one. FA was simpler game play and needed at the time to attract some playerbase. After s24/25, there’s significant increase in new players, at least around the communities I play at (NA), some are bots, most are not. Earth is not that strong in the tier 0 RGK spot, or should I say more restrictive as the rocks affects grouping in progression and needs more careful management in targeting. Its AI is complaint heavily by the community, however I feel might be on purpose to restrict EA performance in GR whether solo or group.

Inna problem is exactly what a lot of players rely on it, like GoD HA, its a 1 packet fits all build. Which frankly speaking in D3, its BAD for balancing. Almost all builds are tagged as Bounties/T16 rift, Speed GR, Push GR. 1 pack fits all purpose making time usage extremely efficient and resource can be focused in getting those satisfied rolls. These level of optimization can often than not attach feelings to, and hurt when its not longer feels the same. However, a build should not be 1 build fits all. In my 10 years of D3, more than 30k hours of gaming time, the biggest topic in this game is balance, balance, balance. Whether buff or nerf is complex and situational, but a balance build should contains strengths and…weakness. I played all the builds ever existed in this game (aside from WD spider), some elite level, some are not. In my opinion, each class should have clear identity builds that distinctive in playstyle (not power). Some are AOE, some are single target, some are more fluid, some are clunky but powerful. Each build should attract its players due to its playstyle and usage/goal, not power level. Atm, we pick builds simply by which has 2 min 150 capacity, which is lowbie scrub can barely pass 130 @10k paragon. Inna need to be torn down, question is on what scale. Lately I have been thinking maybe its too big a nerf, especially if Fire Ally making a come back through BotLG. Blizzard need to understand, remove any special ally treatment on BotLG is healthy for Inna. We should pick ally rune base on playstyle, not power.

I think Earth RGK needs to step down, Fire RGK need not coming back, Water efficiency shouldnt be nerfed too much, 1200% per ally making 121x or 6 Tier nerf should do.

This is bad. Trend is for builds moving towards too simple. There’s a bottom line to lower build complexity to attract newer players, as if established players is worthless or encouraging scripted gameplays. You cant list Norvalds as an example, Novalds is a much more simpler mechanic than Shenlong. Dial down Norvalds was to shed its AoV HF group performance since a meta was dual TK and RGK crusader once at establish paragon.

S24 first usable Bartuk was dropped at 2.8k paragon, solo 150 was down at 3k. Scripted Inna was used at 4.5K paragon with 100% clearance rate solo 150.

S25 first usable Treg of Lies was found para 500, solo 130 was done at 1k paragon, first 150 was done 2.5k paragon. 6 min 150 was done at 5k paragon, RG was killed in 6 secs after its ghosting w/o power on 150s. Scripted Inna was used at 3.8K paragon with 100% clearance rate averaging sub 10 min clears on solo GR150

S26 first 150 RGK was at 2400 paragon, RG kill time was 1:40 on 380 ping. First 110 was done at 900 paragon with normal shenlong under 3 mins.

I cant find a reason not to nerf Inna, its also my main class which I spent 8-9k hours on.

EDIT: I am breaking forum rules by listing scripted results to illustrate how OP Inna Fire was under those themes and BotLG special treatment. Its almost pointless to play since there’s no satisfaction of “challenge”

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I am not going to dispute your points besides the last, you are reasonable about them at least, even if I do disagree that general usable builds are bad. That is partly a question of taste though and more a question of other builds being too bad as Inna too good if take shenlong out and bring earth back inline with other runes. That would be quite the nerf in itself to strongest Inna build as a pusher. :slight_smile:

Shenlong and Norvalds share a similar problem and I do think it would better to specialize both, so devs are freer to play with the other class sets and do not have to think what if shenlong or norvald was added to it (which was why aov needed a nerf while the item that should be meant for that set, darklight is just too weak in comparison even after nerfs norvald, while Norvald even after nerf is the goto for most crusader builds … As long as Norvald is there you canot buff the set though so darklight would become viable, since Norvald amplifies AOV damage and darklight does not). Even if would be a short term loss, it would open up more in time. Unfortunately game is based on that damage stacking. Not going to change anymore unless for some reason Blizz decides D3 does deserve that second XP, unlikely with D4 coming.

That is also why I would force Daibo for Inna, if made a special one hander for Inna stronger a shenlong is, it could be an auto for her and buff that set even further. Which if rock was brought in line with water might not even be so bad, maybe if carefully balanced but coupled with another one hander likely too strong. Not even talking about cubing it over flying dragon. Fire ally, yeah not a fan to specifically buff one rune over the others either, making it de facto the one to play, reason why I would prefer a buff on mystic ally damage on daibo above fire ally on bracers if would take shenlong out as an option, it would be both of those not just one. Opening up improvements hopefully for both Raiment and Uliana who need it more as Inna, not even talking about WOL …

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Haha, I hope you can feel my disappointment or even frustration in seeing a class I played since May 12th 2012 gets “destroyed” like this in a way.

Norvalds in FoH AoV can restrict gear flexibility. FoH is positioned for speed T16/sub 3 min GR meta. Sure some use FoH for 5-8 min farming tier, but those are minority I think.
Losing a 5x multiplier to 3x is 3.2 tiers which translate to 17% ish lost in XP in those speed GR. T16 should remain same relatively, bigget loss is XP per hour. Efficient saders will stay 2-3 min tier, so FS /hr will likely stay the same. AoV has been meta RGK from s19-s22, the NS meta stays till date (20k paragon of course), AoV has also been top solo for rather similar time frames, combine with the dual dps sader meta, a 3.2 tier nerf is less impactful in my opinion. Lets not mention Norvalds buff is a 1 button click… If FoH needs a power boost, can always touch Darklight or Kassard Cord now w/o too much worry over power for other builds.

Shenlong if restricted to Raiment, will only be automatic FS since Raiment is not likely to be touched in the forseeable future. I am waiting and have waited for 6 years for Raiment rework. Shenlong has more complicated in execution, an element I find what D3 need these days. You can only promote simple builds so some degree before you lose skilled players. At the moment, D3 loses skilled players than gaining them, especially on NA server.

Agree completely if 1 out of these 2 is to be buffed. But I still dislike Daibo for its slower base attack speed and monks are sensitive in frames in speed meta. Daibo on paper is only 1 tier behind Shenlong, but my Daibo play almost always 3-4 tiers behind due to how smooth dual wield frames advantage over 2H.

Uliana is locked with 3x weapons without almost a complete rework. SSS system need to be taken out if to fit shenlong in, therefore a new system of detonator need to come up.

I think bring Inna down (not as heavy a nerf) and bring speed builds in other classes UP to match Inna. But devs have their ideas, they want selected classes to shine for specific periods to ease staleness.

Daibo is easier to play than shenlong on push though, I am not sure if you dislike shenlong mechanically or just want to nerf Inna solo top GR performances. I dont think at this moment, Inna solo is super strong as long as you restrict Fire/Water performances. Earth current mechanic it self is a restriction. I think I like Inna water to perform similarly to GoD HT… Its speed tier is buffed but top GR capped. GoD was done by upping base damage but restrict pierce penetration, very smart in my eyes. With Inna, the nerfed FA was to promote water/earth. Water freeze to prevent density generation in high tier and earth AI / need supports (RGK). So if your concern is Inna GR solo, by nerfing FA, the situation is good, hence why BotLG need to stay balanced.

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My problem with Shenlong is that it is a general damage buff, so will always be viable for any set and highest damage it boost, allies for Inna, exploding for Uliana (though she has higher supporting weapons and needs another option as seven sided but if do so shenlong becomes a option possibly s shenlong is now, Raiment whatever you do with her, POJ tempest rush and as such limits what you can do with those sets, crusader with Norvald is in an even worse position since horsey is so good anyway also for damage mitigation and speed). Adding Shenlong purely to Raiment would make her play more skilled due to Shenlong mechanic even if based on a primary skill and would allow you to even buff shenlong which would be possible if Raiment only set, making her more of an option without doing anything further to Raiment.

I am a casual so do not really mind Inna losing a bit at top and as you say daibo will always have some speed problems over shenlong, even if buffed a bit to make up for the loss of shenlong.

BotLG unfortunately is not what you should balance the game about, they will always find a way to unbalance the game and means you cannot make any easier to play build viable (I would propose around GR 120 around 1500 Paragon as viable for non top builds? (feel free to give a better definition of Viable since you are more into the numbers as I am, just my intuition says that would be fair, but might be unbalanced with 3000-5000 paragon). I would propose to follow example of D2R and ban maphackers if want to do something about that.