Impale RG fight simulation

Demon Hunter
1

I know what times we can expect with new buff to Holy Point Shot but I wanted to be more transparent and show what I base my predictions on.

I updated my old Excel Spread Sheet that I use since Sentry auto shooting build was a thing, adapted it for Impale and uploaded it to google docs so you can view it online and download it.

docs DOT google DOT com/spreadsheets/d/1HwhTEdFfPny3ZVP1os5JjbTTJi2gae-epTdb3-3jLys/edit?usp=sharing

It simulates single target RG fight with Impale Shadow RGK. It is fully dynamic (you need to download it to see switches) and you can change self buffs, gem levels, party buffs, stats from gear and it will show you kill speed for selected GR automatically.

It takes into account stricken stacking, uptime of wolf buff, uptime of vengeance and ambush and so on.

It gives exact time in seconds for perfect RG fight.

How do I validate results?
Damage numbers are same like d3planner.
I get almost exact same time in practice in 145s (like 1-2 sec difference on perfect boss).

So lets see some results for GR 150 for some builds.

  • d3planner 117425778
  • Endless walk + Aughilds + COE on self
  • 5K Paragons
  • Full Primal gear
  • 150 gems
  • Augments lvl 150
  • Self Buffs: Wolf, Mark for Death,
  • Party buffs: Unity, Strong Arms, Toxin 1, Toxin 2, Ice Blink, Executioner Axe
  • TIME in GR 150 IS 193.60 sec or 3:14

If we add Barbs Falter buff of 50% DIBS (takes into account trash killer does not need globes) time would be 173.80 sec or 2:54.

  • d3planner 521263686
  • Squirts + Aughilds + COE + SOJ on self
  • 5K Paragons
  • Full Primal gear
  • 150 gems
  • Augments lvl 150
  • Self Buffs: Wolf, Mark for Death
  • Party buffs: Unity, Strong Arms, Toxin 1, Toxin 2, Ice Blink, Executioner Axe
  • TIME IN GR 150 IS 177.83 sec or 2:58

If we add Barbs Falter buff of 50% DIBS (takes into account trash killer does not need globes) time would be 159.87 sec or 2:40.

note: I could not keep up Squrts buff up in 150s when I tested last time.

Crusader got nerfed by 4 GRs so he will be killing RG in 146 like he used to kill RG in 150. I hear that really good Crusaders @5K Paragons are killing RG in 150s in ~1:45.

So lets look what would be time for DH for 2 listed builds in GR 146:

First build: 135.67 sec or 2:16
Second build: 126.87 or 2:07

So if we don’t get bigger buff to Holy Point Shot, it is clear that Shadow Impale will be behind Crusader even in the perfect scenario with perfect gear.

Crusader will be able to kill any RG and he will also have bigger dps on single target.

14 Likes
2

Awesome info here. Thanks for sharing.

One thing I do want to bring up is that while crusaders will still be stronger as RGK after the nerfs, the gap between S6 and Sader has been closed significantly. What use to be about an 8 or 9 GR difference has now been cut to a ~2 GR difference. Not perfect by any means, but a hell of a lot better than it has been.

Unless the groups one runs with absolutely refuses to do anything that isn’t meta, more DH’s will find a nice spot filling in as RGK for an overwhelming majority of the population. Given the fact that this isn’t the “general balance patch” that will happen after 2.6.9, It’s surprising that anything outside of the new set and items got touched in 2.6.9.

If I’m to assume, I think this was nearly just tossing a bone to DH’s to get them more involved in group play, not necessarily a balance solution to S6 itself. If anything, UE6 MS players are out of luck and thrown in the bin with M6 next patch until future general balance changes.

3

I can speak for non season. It will be hard to find spot with Impale DH because there will be really no reason to invite Impale DH over Crusader unless you play with friends. Crusaders have their builds prepared, and don’t need to farm for any new items. Crusader has much better success rate because his kill time does not drop significantly on RGs that spawn a lot of adds.

In non season people are doing 150s for Paragon farming and 100% success rate with nice times is important. In average scenario difference is bigger than 2GRs because of RGs that spawn adds.

In my opinion Impale should be at least faster on single target RGs.

We might see Hungering Arrow RGK in #1 group but Hungering Arrow is even more sensitive to adds than Impale.

1 Like
4

That depends on the goal. Looking at the numbers you provided, it’s clear that Impale will be able to clear most of the same scenarios as Sader, just a little slower on avg. Right now, Impale simply can’t clear at a certain point period. That’s a pretty big difference.

This is very true and that sucks. It’s going to be very difficult getting a decent new HPS. It’s relatively easy to prepare for mats now since you know you’re going to need to blow through a lot of them. Still not fair though.

That’s more of a game issue than an impale issue, so it’s hard to fault Impale here. Even if Impale on paper was slightly stronger than Sader, it still wouldn’t matter because Sader will be more consistent as an RGK. In this case, it would be better to tackle the root cause.

HA should be a strong contender.

All in all, I feel where you’re getting at. Blizz could have done more. This wasn’t the patch to help previous sets but rather push out the new stuff. I say all pitchforks in if they don’t do more in Patch 2.7.0.

You’re right in that it won’t change much for the players that will egg your house because you took ~30 seconds longer to kill an RG. However, for over 90% of the player base that’ll be happy to be able to clear similarly high GR’s in time, this is substantial. It appears this was blizzards target.

Personally, I wouldn’t want to play with people like that in the first place. It’s one thing to be literal minutes off always, and another thing to be in the range of seconds. A bit overly obsessive that sucks the fun out of just wanting to kill stuff.

5

I was really surprised they buffed Impale at all. I did not expect that to happen.
I was expecting it to be taken look at when they take look at other DH sets/builds also.

But since they did it this time they better do it right. HPS will be hard to get so they better not change their mind of its legendary power in the future again and again and again.

For me it seems like their goal was GR 130 @5K Paragons solo. Even for that, for average player HPS needs bigger buff.

Maybe we will get buff to set bonus in the future. Hopefully same path when they give UE deserved buff. Time will tell.

6

We can always tell others to not run impale on PTR so maybe it gets a second round of tuning before PTR’s over. The try-hards will need to chill out :laughing:

1 Like
7

Yeah, especially considering the fact that Strafe will likely stack Stricken at least 10x/second.

I think that after crusader gets nerfed, AoV, GoD, S6, and H90 will all be worth investigating, in regards to the relative merits. I don’t see any chance of S6 coming out on top of this pile, but hopefully it’ll be close enough to be tolerated in off-metas.

8

After running some tests on PTR I think that build with Hungering Arrow cant be RGK.

2 Likes
9

If mobility is important to cut down time in grift, Impale DH is way ahead Shotgun Crusader…

10

In speeds it is. You roll from elite to elite and just collect the globes.

Crusader on the other hand has way better ability to clear good trash aswell. So regarding pushing slower and higher rifts, crusader is even better.

Also this thread is basically just about the RGK in 4p for comparison.

11

…in which the enemies is DRAGGED TOWARD you from zBarb and you don’t have to hunt em’ down…:wink:

12

It is not important in higher GRs. People are farming GR 150 this days.