Of course. But the experience of getting “Awesome firebolt Legendary of eternal epicness” from a UI vendor screen in a town, vs. seeing it fall on the ground when killing an enemy, is two somewhat different gameplay experiences imo.
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That is why we need both - having 90% of your godly items drop and 10% you craft is a nice balance. It’s better gameplay experience than 100% drops.
uh huh? That is not true at all lol. I enjoy trading because:
- Social aspect
- Because it means my items/time has real value. I can log in and if i decide I want to make a high budge FCBear Druid over the weekend I can go sell/trade the items from my MF Sorc and boom.
I hate games without trade because like D3 everything is too accessible. I literally can get BIS gear within 12 hours of a new league. That is utterly pathetic
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Social aspect and value from items are not strictly bound to trading. It happens so that current aRPGs lack good social activities and crafting systems replacing trading. Trading per self is not a requirement for these two you mentioned to exist.
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Trading is fine. Unlimited free trading with no restrictions or binding is terrible. You’ll have an over saturated economy in months, with people buying all of the best gear in the game for 30 bucks from a third party website, just like Diablo 2.
I don’t think people remember just how bad the economy really was in D2.
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Current trading is not fine. It allows whales to acquire unlimited number of gold/mats from 3rd parties and receive every item from gambling/crafting.
There should be the following restrictions to current trading format:
- Gold becoming BoA
- Items traded becoming 0 gold
- Mats traded per day limit
Then the whales won’t be able to cheat their way to top gear and the clans won’t receive huge mats buff in clan stash from botting.
Economy was bad because of duping, not because of trading.
Totally free trading is the only hope for D4.
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D2 economy was due to duping. Also d2 is an example of what happens when a company doesn’t combat rmt. You can combat rmt without restricting trade and pointing to D2 and saying “this is what happens when you have trade” is a logical fallacy.
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True. Duping, map hack and other cheats all worked against D2.
D3 didn’t have these things but what it did have was the real money auction house. Blizzard invited people to come and RMT, and so masses of people did.
We can expect that D4 will not have duping, or a real money auction house. The only thing you can’t rule out is botting. A good anti botting system with constant banning of cheaters is essential.
Under these conditions, trading will work a lot better.
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PoE does not have an in-game AH, nor duping (I believe?), yet the trading is still horrible.
In what game is trading mandatory?
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Clearly you didn’t play vanilla D3.
Actually I did. I played with a party of 4 and self found most of our gear between each other, it was only when we got into inferno that we started trading. Want to know why? Because trading is the obvious choice for any person to do, its the only way to get rid of useless items in your stash, and thats a good thing.
The difference is, you can completely play through the game without trading. It’s not mandatory. There could have been a solo-self-found version of d3 vanilla and people would still manage to play through the game. It was clearly a benefit to trade, but it was not mandatory…
Name me any other game. Because you’re making it sound like every single game that has trading it’s mandatory, when it’s not. It’s just a clearly superior and fun option.
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No, it was not the ONLY way.
D4 needs fully FREE-TRADE, no question about it. Or you know… we get Diablo 3 with a new Engine. No Thanks.
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Free Trade MUST be in the game
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All gear should be obtainable Solo (theoretically)
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D4 MUST be balanced around a game that has Free-Trade as a main game-feature, and community-feature. Under no circumstances, should the game aim to give “everything to everyone” like in D3.
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A lot of End-game gear must be ultra rare
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Players that find an ultra-rare item but don’t have a use for it, should be able to trade it away for another ultra-rare item that they actually want. Finding a ultra-rare item that you dont want to use, should STILL be super-exciting and a memorable moment
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50% or more of our actual character power must come from our character level and thus our skill-tree choices. Gear should enhance an already powerful build, thus allowing for gear to not be mandatory. The craziest and most skilled players should be able to do end-game content with very very bad gear or even no gear at all, further illustrating that character level and skill-tree builds must MEAN a lot, and should under no circumstances be dictated by gear
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Specific Early-Game, mid-game, and end-game Gear should be HIGHLY desired by players, but NO Gear should EVER be “Mandatory” to make or break a build. Gear should augment and push already existing builds to the next level. Our “Build” should be dictated by character level and skill-tree choices, and gear should enhance that build further, not make or break it.
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A lot of gear that isn’t ultra-rare must be end-game viable
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The best of the best and most rare gear should not be required to play the “endgame”. That gear MUST be reserved for those that grind the longest, invest the most time, educate themselves the most about game mechanics, get to know the game deeply, and then must be rewarded for that by having the highest character levels and best of the best gear, that newcomers and casuals can only dream about. (or you know, newcomers and casuals Learn to Play and accept that with dedication, knowledge and effort come great rewards)
Don’t forget:
D2 trading was entirely optional! and with dedication, skill, knowledge, and effort, all the gear you NEEDED was obtainable solo! People do it SOLO again and again every time in the first week of a new Ladder Season.
The best of the best gear was NOT necessary to be able to play Hell Difficulty. This is how the most skilled and knowledgeable players can farm Mephisto and Andariel in HELL difficulty 6 hours after a new Ladder Season starts in D2. Are they getting one shot when they do mistakes? hell-yes. But at least it can be done until they get better gear and max out resistances and hit break points.
In Diablo 3 vanilla, the auction house was absolutely mandatory for those reasons:
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D3 leveling 1-70 was and IS STILL absolutely useless. Gear meant and still means EVERYTHING in D3. Your character level and skill choices mean absolutely nothing, if you do not wear a weapon in your weapon slot. Everything scales off of your weapon, which is terrible design in a diablo game.
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Diablo 3 vanilla, had and still has terrible item and affix design. In D3 vanilla, Legendary items were absolutely useless! Rare or even magic items in your weapon slot were 99% of the time better, because everything scaled off of the DPS number. What a FAILURE of item design still to this day.
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D3 vanilla had terrible difficulty design. That difficulty design was NEVER tested. D3 Devs had ZERO knowledge of ARPG design. Normal, Nightmare and Hell difficulty were a walk in the park, designed for noobs to finish in 1 day. Inferno, was 10’000’000 times harder than Hell difficulty, causing 99.9% of the player base to be unable to play the final difficulty.
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The gear (which means everything in D3 up to this day) necessary for Inferno Difficulty, did NOT drop outside of Inferno Difficulty. That EPIC FAILURE in game design, cause people to run through Inferno Difficulty, trying to reach “Chests” in order to farm the loot dropping from chests or Pots. People would DIE 1000 times, just to get to a chest, and get a “checkpoint” in story mode, that would then allow the player to farm a chests or pots efficiently.
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The gear from those chests and pots farmed in Inferno Difficulty, would then be sold on the Auction House for horrendous amounts of money. People that could not afford the gold-cost or real-world-money-cost, would farm Gold (from pots lol) in Hell Difficulty, ALL DAY LONG, so they can maybe buy Inferno-grade gear bit by bit.
In the end, the Dev’s scrambled and closed the Auction House entirely, made all gear Bind-On-Account, and increased the drop rates of ALL gear by 10’000’000’000% as millions of people were leaving D3. This 180 degree extreme-turn turned D3, a very poorly designed game, into a NOOB-Feast for casuals and people that dont like to invest time in games (how ironic…).
The Devs then realized that All real gamers and “Diablo Veterans” (or any ARPG fan) find D3 to be an absolute joke, so they implemented “Paragon Levels” (Based on an idea first floated by Kripparian in a suggestion video LOL). However, infinite Paragon Leveling in D3 has ruined a game, that was and still is for all eternity a ruined game from the very beginning.
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Great post TOPCommander.
Let’s hope the devs see your feedback.
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+1
Trading must be in D4 or I won’t be purchasing it, neither will my brother. If people don’t want to trade, then just don’t trade. It’s pretty simple really.
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That’s a good one. 
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I won’t. I’m not here for another Diablo 3. If they implement smart loot because of no trading or very limited trading, I’m out. I’ll just go play PoE 2/Wolcen/LE.
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While I agree with the desire and overall sentiment, the all caps title and drama are a bit over the top.
Still completely agree that trade must be part of D4 if they want the game to be as good as it can be.
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