Ah yisssssss, dead last. It’s actually a little worse than that for me; I found Vyrs actually physically hurt to pound arcane explosion every ~1 second. I started developing RSI. I tried Hydra, but it is at least 5 GRs behind Vyr, and Vyr is ~5 GR behind everything else.
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It’s not entirely a bug, it’s due to slow velocity increasing tick rate of the shot projectile. There are ways to handle that also; removing elite affix altogether, limiting damage ticks before a bounce or making it work different.
Damage reflect was the bane of some builds in GRs so they changed how affix worked, so it’s not a far idea to hope they’d change it. Removing it completely would be the easiest but I don’t think they’d do it.
Limiting tick rate per target could be the right approach but this depends on if they think that’s okay to change it (maybe they WANT you to abuse the tickrate, it’s just one elite affix in a pool of 22) and how complicated to code such thing.
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Your data is always flawed.
Everyone is playing DH right now so of course they will be more high clears.
Try playing the game and Saders have more dps than DHs. DH can clear high cause they can skip entire levels and you got free pylons with missle dampening.
You fish enough and you will get clears that look like DH has more power than saders but this game is incredibly map dependent which your fancy charts can’t show.
For the same reason WW barbs look better cause if you get the dream rift you win. But in general many other builds are more powerful.
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That’s BS. Barbs may be weaker than Demon Hunters right now, (and probably Crusaders) but a lot of those builds have been already nerfed or slated for a nerf (such as GoD DHs). I’d still rank WW Barbarians as one of the top 3 builds in the game.
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First, it is not “my” data. I have no affiliation with the linked website:
http://ranks.zeroempathy.org/e13
This website collects information from the leaderboards of the 4 regions (America, EU, Asia and China). Although there may be a lag of a day or so relative to the current leaderboard, the data provides an unbiased snapshot of the worldwide leaderboard. If you think that there are problems with the accuracy of data, you can cross-reference it to another independent website to alleviate those concerns:
I think that you will find that there is no problem with the accuracy of the data and it is not flawed.
What data did you use to reach the conclusion that post-nerf crusaders are 5 GRs above DH currently in terms of solo power?
If you are arguing that the dataset has biases due to the number of players playing each class, of course, it does. There may also be biases in the relative aptitudes of players that stratify by class. You put forth 2 explanations to explain why more solo DH have cleared GR 150 than pre-nerf crusaders.
Explanation 1.
As mentioned in my post, the non-season era leaderboard was not reset with the new patch. There was a significant enrichment last patch in people playing crusaders and witch doctors due to their power. These clears are still part of the leaderboard. These two classes were nerfed in the latest patch.
Explanation 2
Certainly, this argument has more merits than the other explanation. I think that this is one of the main points in why this thread was created, because of how GoD DH interact with missile dampening affixes and the reliance on devouring arrow for high clears.
I know the idea behind the thread but…
I haven’t seen a nerf thread since we sorted out that Missile Dampener was the culprit in all or almost all the Greater Rift 150 clears.
So I don’t see why this thread was necessary other than to gin up the “nerf DH” crowd.
I thought this was put to bed. If folks want to pretend the DH is OP, they’re going to pretend that regardless of whatever buff or nerf our class receives.
Hey, I don’t like that we rely on a specific affix to do 150, but I also don’t see a huge problem with it.
I’d love for it to be more powerful in other areas but personally I think Blizzard should decide and not have a thread, however well intentioned it be, be a place where folks start arguing that whatever buff isn’t enough or nerf is too much or vice versa.
So, now all the nerf folks can bring up this crap again. It was settled and didn’t need to be relitigated.
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The reason that the discussion died down about nerfing/fixing interaction with missile dampening the GoD build was that there was an emerging consensus that the build did rival AoV crusaders and Mun witch doctors from the prior patch. The conversation shifted to how to most appropriately change things rather than arguing for maintaining the status quo.
I really doubt that the number of pierces reaches even 10 without missile dampening. See the number of pierces is relevant to the distance travelled by the arrow, since it has a maximum distance. If you watched the hungering arrow carefully, you will find that the arrow travels about 15 yards, each pierce, before its finds target. By 10 pierces, I don’t see the maximum distance to be anywhere near 150 yards.
So if you’re really aiming to nerf it, maximum pierce should be down to between 3 to 5 instead, and should only apply for Devouring Arrow rune.
Earlier I ran a test, My single target max damage hits were 2T. In density those hits reached 57T.
How do you explain this phenomena?
That 2T hit was a high, it already had more than 1 pierce attributed to it. The 57T was undoubtedly 40+ pierces (it was not an ad hit).
To reiterate my forked recommendation:
Ninth Cirri Satchel: Add 20 pierce cap. (est. 4GR nerf: really needs testing)
Devouring Arrow Rune : 70% → 20% (~6GR nerf @ 20 pierces, again needs testing)
GoD 6pc : 40,000% (~9GR Gain)
What does this do for our builds?
| Skill | Rune | Change | Solo Clear @ 5k |
|---|---|---|---|
| Hungering Arrow | Devouring Arrow | -1 | 141 |
| Hungering Arrow | Spray of Teeth | 5 | 138 |
| Hungering Arrow | Shatter Shot | 5 | 139 |
| Bolas | Volatile Explosive | 9 | 137 |
| Grenade | Cluster Grenade | 9 | 135 |
How are there only 3 players tied for the best time on the 4-man Non-season EU leaderboard? What happened to the fourth guy?
Just so you know, I’m hunting you down and dragging you here to fix Comcast’s SNR/MER issues on the OFDM carrier block. That’s what you get for being good at math.
Well, either that or you get to put together a miniature Delta Flyer for me. You choose. 
I survive by letting my eyes glaze over and then focus my anxiety through my good eye’s lens and melt the glaze into a superhot mass that wipes away the evil letters and replaces them with gummy bears, which I then quite happily solve by ingesting. 
Now, if you can surive my quantum mess, I’ll be impressed. 
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I think you want an electrical engineer instead lol. Mathematicians don’t “fix” things, rather we tell you that there exists at least one thing that is broken.
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And if can’t find the problem, you invent another dimension to make the math work 
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That’s where the tech support part of me comes into play. 
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Have you tried turning it off and on again?
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They’re not entirely different though.
Are you sure?
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Yes, I’m sure. I know some quantum mechanics and the source of the equation is different while the resulting equation is the same. Anyways, let’s keep this thread back on topic of DH nerfs! If you want to know more about this Schrödinger equation, you can start a different thread (I’ll check it out)!
Edit: No worries about the derailing, it all started when I got called out for “probably knowing more math than others” so it’s my fault sort of! I just had to back up my claim with some math wizardry.
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Sorry, it was only supposed to be a light-hearted response based on not knowing about the state of a cat inside the box. By all means, back to DH stuff…
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