I said it many times. It would be awesome if we could play as 4 dps in a party. Introducing Area Damage was a mistake.
Look at it this way. If the meta was a ZDH instead of a Zbarb for 150s, the damage problem Barbs are talking about would still be there. The zdps role doesn’t change the argument.
See what I’m saying? It doesn’t matter which classes can pull stuff together for dps classes to kill and farm XP. People want damage options in the meta and in solo.
Monk has had a role in the meta since forever (zmonk), and they should STILL get damage buffs. Our problem isn’t with the meta.
Yes it would be there. If it was like that for last 10 seasons average clear on Barb Leader-boards would be even lower than now. There would be less people with high lvl augments, gems and so on. What you do in party affects your damage. Paragon that you get from party play gives you more damage, gems that you lvl up in party give you more damage, items that you get faster in party give you more damage and so on. So if you don’t have spot in good party your progress is slower and you do less damage in solo.
Because I only play DH I am still under 5K paragon. That affects my ability to push solo LB. If I put same amount of time on playing Barb I could still be relevant on Barbs LB.
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Yes, groups provide bigger benefits for solo when you compete against your own class. More gems, more gear, more paragon.
But what people want are options (regardless of how high the numbers go in solo).
For example, the game would be a lot better if DH, WD, or Monk could have viable trash clearing builds as well as support builds. Game would be a lot better it other pull builds could replace ZB or ZM. Game would be a lot better if other RGK builds competed with Thorns.
What people want is options. Barb already has a zdps role. They don’t have a damage role. DH has a damage role, but Thorns is out of line so it’s used less. Yet, atleast DH has strong solo variety.
I agree that the game is a mess but our point all along about Barbs is they don’t want to be forced into playing zdps or Wall charge.
No variety will help you when you try to compete vs guy with 7K+ paragons (farmed on other class) while you are under 5K. If you are at same skill lvl there is no way you are going to beat him.
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I disagree. The OP clearly points out that barbs are currently worse. How much more clear do I need to be that barbs currently need a buff. The fact that I point out that barbs were not the worst class during all of 2018 for solo greater rfit clears does not mean that I do not want barbs to be buffed. I have said so repeatedly:
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But what’s that have to do with what Barbarians are complaining about, which is lack of damage roles in both solo and meta?
Again these are two separate issues you keep conflating. Anyone from any class can jump in the meta with a meta character and farm paragon to push any solo LB. Congrats.
Now what does that have to do with Barb damage roles? Nothing.
You’re conflating two separate issues.
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You can play from paragon 0 to 10000 with Barb and be super efficient. If you lack damage compared to other Barbs it is your own fault and that has nothing to do with other classes. You are not forced to play other classes if you want to compete on Barbs LB. Why are you comparing Barbs solo damage to solo damage of other class if you are not competing on Barbs lead-board vs other classes? You are not forced to play other class in party (where most damage comes from) like WDs are for example.
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That is a strawman argument no one’s made, and even if it was it’s still not relevant.
Your problem is here —> Any player desiring to push any solo LB is free to make a meta character (rats or 150s or whatever) and get gems and paragon, creating and unfair advantage over players who don’t wish to do that.
The Barb community’s problem is here —> Barbs have no viable damage roles and limited solo damage roles due to being pigeonholed into wall charge builds.
Two separate issues, neither of which invalidates or alters the validity of the other. As I said before and you agreed to; the classes that occupy the zdps roles aren’t relevant. Stop conflating these issues.
You can still compete one vs other. It is even playing field. For every class there is only one build at a top. Here we spoke about top clears per class no?
For me that even playing field is much more important than number of builds you can use because all builds feel bad if you compare yourself to someone who has 2xmore damage due to flawed game design that forces you to NOT play your own class if you want to compete with it.
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DH can also “compete one vs other”. All classes can. This is not relevant.
The issues you keep talking about with the meta offering higher XP and players feeling forced to “play another class” to compete in solo LBs are completely irrelevant to the problems Barbs are talking about.
You said it yourself.
Paragon >>> items. So it doesn’t matter which class you choose to use in the meta to farm Paragon. Paragon >>>> items, right? That’s what you said.
So your issue with having to “play a different class” to farm Paragon in the meta is not about Barbarian damage roles.
Your issue with the game and the meta has nothing to do with what Barbarians are complaining about. Your issue is with the paragon system and the bigger XP bonuses possible in groups. This is a problem every class has to deal with. It’s a problem of solo vs groups. Many people don’t want to feel forced to play groups to compete in solo LB.
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What Barbarian’s dps builds for solo game play has to do with DH???
Just so you remember we started this discussion after you wrote this:
"DH is way ahead of Barb and Monk now, and much more powerful
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Certainly, I do not know the developer’s thought process in relation to solo versus 4 man meta clears.
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In general if your class can clear high solo rift content, you are more likely to be a DPS in the 4 man meta (assuming that you can fill boss or trash killer roles effectively without lagging the game).
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As of now, the 4 man meta works best with 2 support zDPS (barbs and monks).
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The two worst classes for solo DPS are barbs and monks.
Could it be possible that the developers that recognize points 1 and 2 and both barbs and monks are getting the short-end of the stick as DPS because of their zDPS role? I am not saying that this is happening or should be happening. However, it is a possibility.
Hypothetically speaking, if you were a monk or barb, would you trade a nerf to your group buff skills so that other classes replaced you as zDPS in the 4 man met? In return, you could solo greeter rift 135?
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Do you understand English? You’re not addressing anything I said.
Your problem is with solo players needing to participate in the meta to compete in solo leaderboards due to paragon farming.
The problem you are describing is a solo vs group gameplay reward issue.
Your posts have nothing to do with what this thread is about.
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And what if your class is not part of meta? I understand that this part is hard for you. Barbs are part of meta since… forever.
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I am just going to repeat my question again.
What Barbarian’s dps builds for solo game play has to do with DH???
Why you wrote this:
“DH is way ahead of Barb and Monk now, and much more powerful”
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What if it’s not? It doesn’t matter. Just play on another class to farm XP.
You said it yourself. Paragon >>> Items
Make a meta character (wiz, nec, barb, rgk dh, zmonk) and go farm paragon.
This issue has nothing to do with what we’re discussing here.
Relative DPS in solo is relevant if the goal is to achieve class parity. The current iteration of monks and barbs do need a buff.
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No. Lets make new meta with 4 DH. How about that?
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I am going to repeat question last time…
What Barbarian’s dps builds for solo game play has to do with DH???
Why you wrote this:
“DH is way ahead of Barb and Monk now, and much more powerful”