How quickly things are forgotten - Solo Greater Rift Summary Per Class

I don’t see other classes having the same ramp up time like Raekor before being able to deal damage. Neither needing to use that buggy wall charging.
Or needing the perfect rolled gear for ww and still it requires a lot, to do less than others. Ofc. classes needs fixing. But I don’t see others being worse than this.

Okay, take uliannas again, the 2 set bonus applies an exploding palm on the target on the third hit with a generator, this is considered a proc, so it cannot apply ad to the explosion. That means the best way to play is to hit a target twice, run out and hit a second target so you don’t trigger the 2-set bonus but trigger the mystic rhythm passive, then manually apply exploding palm, instantly hit seven sided strike and boom, your ep has both ad and 40% increased damage from mystic rhythm.

Then you hopefully can just run around and try to reapply it by spreading it to others, if unsuccessful, you have to start over.

It’s pretty stupid, and could be fixed if they just removed the 2-set bonus.

So in this case is see raekor bug being in a problematic place, since it actually provides a buff to the class, so losing it would mean losing damage.

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I still don’t see it as buggy as Raekor, with the need of that much time before you can deal damage consistantly. Or the requirement of ww with it’s need for perfect rolls.

It’s problematic because the whole mechanic about the set, is actually hindering the potential of the build.

In gearing, I’d argue that while yes ww has it bad, others have it bad too, most classes have a set amount of stats that they need, and if unlucky, you could end up in offhand hell. Seeing as shields and offhands have such a huge pool of possible combinations, due to them having skill damage for a variety of skills. That one might just be me, but the main issues I found with ww is rerolling the swords, but luckily, that’s only two items.

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Considering people having tested this well enough, the same ones knows it takes the perfect stats to do decent. And on top of that, paragon levels. On top of that gems and so forth. To do less than other builds.
Best scenario for me would be to have a balance for all classes. To get rid of the zdps’ing or make it viable for all.
And, as they promised back in 2012, having to choose from all damage skills and be, well “viable enough” with them.
But it’s still my opinion that Barbarians lack the most. And without getting just something for their sets, while the others did, as well as monk… They are the worst right now. I don’t consider zdpsing and being wanted that way a win.

TuneOut,

There are several things that you have criticized.
To at least address one thing that was mentioned a couple of times:

  1. I did not answer your questions in post 203 (I think) before replying. If so, here are the questions you asked and explicit answers. All of these had been answered before.
    A)

Yes,. I have read each post in this thread (as well as other threads that I posted in). For the barb 2.6.6 buff proposal, I have read this now at least 25 times. I even created word and excel files where I have listed all the legendaries and passives that were requested to be buffed, their extent, and which had new affixes. This was broken down to list 1 and 2.

I assumed that anyone who read in detail the barb proposal would know that table was from there. I was sick and tired of being accused of not reading it. If I can tell everyone that list 2 asks for buffs to 9 passive skills (as I posted earlier), I think that they would stop being so obtuse. How would anyone in their right mind know that number unless they studied the proposal in excruciating detail.

I will admit that I rushed to post 204 in part because I wanted an answer to the question about the table that I initially asked in post 195 that you did not answer. You ignored my question when you made post 203. I wanted to get it out quickly just in case you were just making a short forum visit. I am sorry that I did not read your post 203 before making 204.

As explained in A, I am well-versed in the barb buff proposal. Your question is based on a false premise. I never said that I proved others wrong saying that barbs are not the worst class. The data is clear, barbs are the worst class in 2019 relative to solo greater rift clears. In 2018, it was demon hunters and witch doctors.

C) I can’t find the specific question but I think you expressed concern about me not taking into consideration the bugs/wall charging explot/wonkiness of barb builds. Certainly, there are problems with these mechanics/broken mechanics, but as others have pointed out this is common in other classes. We can argue about which classes have the worst. The class that historically has complained the most is wizards (even though now with their big DPS buffs, they do not complain much anymore).

P.S. I like my proposal to buff base damage using a class-specific modifier for underperforming classes. Another method to boost an underperforming class for solo GRs without a straight damage is modify GR monster hp increase per GR level. For a class that Blizzard wanted ~10 greater rift solo boost for high tier GRs, Blizzard could simply buff monster hp by 15.7% rather than 17% for that class when playin solo greater rifts.

Aside 1: You have accused me of derailing another thread in this and another thread. I might listen to the impartial MVP on this matter.

Aside 2. You have accused me of making posts just to get my post count up (I assume to get to trust level 3). If so, trust level 3 only requires replies to 10 different threads that I had accomplished in the first week of the new forum. I have no need to artificially boost the number of posts that I make. The real limitation for trust level 3, it turns out is time (visiting the forum 50 days during rolling 100 day windows) and having read 500 topics and 20,000 posts again across a rolling 100 day window. Currently, across all D3 forums, there are ~14,900 posts. Yes, I have tables with this data too.

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Oh man this thread is derailing bad.

Micro, my only concern: please consider this.

I would like you to average (or weighted average) first 30 players in each LBs.

Then Do it for first 40.

Then first 50

Then first 60

so on

You will see that your observations will significantly change depending on the data you consider. Therefore we always talk about class average joes in balancing. First 1000 clears in each class are not necessarily in the same league to allow such comparisons.

Your observations are based on the assumption that the clearing effectiveness and efficiency of every class is the same. This is not true.

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i don’t know why people even bother with him , he is just a troll trying to get to L3 and nothing else

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Okay, well this will be derailing it a bit, but would barbs be ready to lose the ww tornadoes to have it more tailored for the average Joe? Ofcourse with a massive increased damage.

Would it be a good trade off?, cause a few things would happen then, first the need to gather mobs will lessen, you’ll still be clearing fairly large aoe, but not attacking a whole screen of demons and their moms at the same time. It still favors ad, and it will cause a lot less lag.

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I refuse to read that wall of text. As written before : you are considered a troll to me now.
Have replied plenty of times why. Adios. Go make new posts with more bull.

The game has changed. The focus has changed. If you play just one class, you are years behind.

Perhaps the game has changed for you, but you’re not speaking for everyone.

The fact is, not everybody has the time to learn and develop different characters. I have a WD that I started in 2016. I just reached 1000 Paragon this year, I’ve been playing casually throughout the years (although a lot more this season).

I’d like to feel that if I play this character, I have as good a chance to reach a high level with this character as with any other character.

Achieving character balance is not easy, and I think maybe people underestimate how hard that is to do. But on the other hand, it should be top priority for the devs, and in fact, they have said so.

It’s frustrating for WD players, for example, to know that they can spend time with a character, and then it’s unplayable in groups because it’s too weak in team play. I think people bought this product with the idea that all classes would be equally viable in all situations.

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I bought this product thinking that all legendaries would be exciting and I could play any class I liked.

The “legendaries would be exciting” is total bunk and WDs/Crusaders are totally out of the meta. RIP.

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You do not need class balance if you’re that kind of player though.

WD is the second best trash killer class, second only to a completely broken build.

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I do see your point. Thing is, if I had known - as the first post showed - that the WD was going to be the worst performing class over a 4-5 year period, I might well have said, let me pass on that one, I’ll try another. Thing I’m saying is, I had the expectation (which I think was reasonable) that all the classes were equally viable. That expectation was not met.

WD is the second best trash killer class, second only to a completely broken build.

Harsh reality, although things have gotten better for solo WDs lately.

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Except it really wasn’t. It was the best 4p build in S8 to S12 (give or take) and was always an average solo class. I don’t think it was the worst class for more than like 2 seasons.

But you shouldn’t choose your class based on the best performing builds/class, but on what you want and like to play.

How much time do you have to play? If you are purely solo gearing a character from scratch to finish seasons up to stash unlock which is chapter 8 takes about 30 hours.

From there gearing another character takes a few hours at most.

To be in fully ancient gear with best rolls for just 1 build outside of lon generally takes about 50 hours and having fully ancient gear across all set pieces is about 100 hours. This actually can be less if you choose to just do bounties.

Why would you compare yourself to another class? If your interaction with another class is mainly split bounties and t16 rifts that is all you need to worry about solo.

If you play group, then things are even faster and you will need to play the meta usually and again another and more pertinent issue that the actual power disparity at the top end of the leaderboard for individual classes.

If you have such limited time to “develop” one class, maybe you aren’t one where top end leaderboarding isn’t even something you push to? Since, you need to play groups to get max level leg gems for your solo play. If you have multiple 120+ augments, I’d venture to say you have time to develop every class from secondary drops in group play.

It’s a psychological aspect you’re not acknowledging though Kikaha. Being weak inherently makes the gameplay less fun if you know other classes/builds are stronger, at least for some players. Those players can’t escape the fact that if they play some other build or class they could be doing a lot more damage. More damage means killing faster or going into higher difficulties, which in turn could mean more fun for those players.

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The thing is, those players might very well struggle in playing the highest perfoming class/build and instead clear much higher with a “lesser” build because this build is more in line with their gameplay and/or is easier.

Look, back when hammerdin was the best crusader build, I was way better with my roland crusader than I was with my hammerdin even at the highest level of gameplay (I was rank 6 solo crus with sweep attack when every single other top 100 of asia / NA / EU played hammerdin).

Catering to the “simple minded” (for lack of better words, not english ^^) players is not the way to go imo. Make equal-ish builds of course, but you should always keep in mind the fun aspect of the build you’re creating, more than its power level. If the build is fun, players will push it way more than if it’s powerful but not fun (see thorns necro).

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Agreed the only time when power disparity should matter is when there is direct interaction of the players.

So I think there is valid arguments for playing dps in a 4 man group in so much each class should have a viable build that play that role in the exp farm.

Now for 4 man pushes there will always be the one setup that out performs all the others and that is impossible to fix, but all classes should have viable roles in the speed exp farm grift levels.

Whether it’s the trash killer or the rgk, doesn’t matter to me.

With regard to other spots where players interact would be split bounties and public rifts. Outside of that I don’t see any other need to adjust due to top leaderboard placements.

Ive played this game since it came out and I have played all the classes quite a bit. Some classes I enjoy some I don’t. Barb has always been my favorite dispite the fact that they are not the best. So after the last blizz con I deleted all my sc toons other then my barb. If I want to make another class seasons are long enough to make one with decent gear. I don’t grind I play with friends when season come out until they get bored lol. I never play z class I have the paragon to prove it 2200 paragon after 6 years :slightly_smiling_face: I play for fun. Do I rage with no new content, yes I certainly do. Lets hope recent changes with more communication with blizz help sustain this game until d4 is ready.