Just seem like someone who’s getting hammered by other barbs, them actually calling out for eachother to jump onto him, he still defends his point that yes, they are bad and it warrents a buff.
But he still defends that it’s factually wrong to assume that barbs has been the worst class, when they havent been. It’s sort of like online bullying, dunno, doesn’t seem nice from your side.
Again. Do you see me in that post?
Do you see me in any Barbarian posts other than me agreeing?
Do you understand, that you cannot put me into a group of others talking about Barbarians, simply cause I don’t agree with Op?
Do enlighten me why you think I am a part of this socalled “group” ?
He was proven wrong in that thread. By people KNOWING what they talk about.
I linked to another post where he 17 hours ago, asked about API related to this post.
So again, keep defending him, you are doing as well as Op.
Fine, sorry for claiming your side, okay the barbs side.
I’m just saying it’s a weird situation, he claims he wants buffs for barbs, he stated it many times.
They want buffs, they feel cheated out of the last patch.
The only thing he wanted to correct was they saying, barbs are the worst class for years.
And somehow, he becomes the bad guy in this…?
To be honest I expected more from them, but it seems that they are on a crusade right now.
You got to see it from both sides.
It’s not about him saying buff Barbarians.
It is multiple errors from his side.
Talks about Barbarians and not being the weakest, while he does not know why people said it was the weakest.
He has been seen in several posts, talking about subjects, not knowing much about it.
He was told to go read up on the data people have collected.
I really don’t want to be compared to others, just cause I agree on what the players/people tell about Barbarians and their “crusade”.
And yes, I think people can be a bit too harsh on this forum.
The point I was making is :
Can’t make a list like this and state “well, Barbarians aint the worst like you said”, if you refuse to read up on why they said it was.
He keeps copying his list and compares it to others, like he wants credit for it or something, when, imo., it is not correct.
You can’t really make a list. Sure, you can by data and numbers. But to me, it’s like seeing a Youtuber going nuts about Wds for a new season, when they use 3k+ paragon points and augmented gear with 140+ gems, when the average player most likely wont have the same amount of power in the coming season.
I don’t mind people having their opinions. What I do mind is, people talking on my behalf when they don’t know me or my opinions on the matter.
When it is shown, they refuse to both reply to the asked questions, and listen to both sides instead of their own.
He threw a ball straight into peoples faces with the entire “hey look at me, I made a list and proved Barbarians aint that bad”.
From there on and even before that, he is seen making plenty of mistakes, almost everytime refused to listen and actually gather info from different viewpoints.
Yes, but sadly that data is made by the same people telling him that he’s wrong, and it’s hard to question that data when that side is holding those cards.
This is a problem because the claim that they are the worst, is assuming that they are comparing it to other classes, without considering that said classes have their own issues. Even Free made a slip of the tongue early in this thread and claimed:
Shield bash has a bug that has still not been resolved, even though crusaders have gained a weapon and set buffs for that skill. This is what i’m saying, their claim on bug/bad mechanics only says to me that they haven’t considered all sides.
And this was why I defended micro, not because he was entirly right on all stats, cause as I said, it is as imperfect as any other, but rather that he goes the more restrained route.
He gets attacked when he called out their reasoning, and from there out, it has been him against them.
But it’s really too late, they wont back down now, and sadly, this is how I view them from now on, until they can cool down and take another look.
Free himself, stated “other classes needs fixing, but we focus on our own”.
This “info list” here, can be seen higher up, so they might think there is no issue and don’t bother fixing Barbarians.
It is not calling out, when he takes a list and don’t consider why they told him, it was the worst class.
It’s not about Gr levels only. It’s about not getting what ALL other classes did.
It’s about fixing a buggy set bonus and mechanics.
The same people you refer to, has mentioned several times : other classes needs fixing as well. We focus on Barbarians cause we want to and that is the class we know stuff about. If you want to advocate for other classes, feel free to do so.
They have said that multiple times.
It’s not this list either, he was wrong about. Multiple times was told over and over again how things works.
And as others have mentioned, I think he plays the forum game more instead of actually reconsidering or thinking about the subjectical side of the debate.
And ofcourse we should advocate our class, but then again, we should not be claiming one class is really more buggy than the other, because everyone has issues.
Micro could have worded it better, but so could the barbs.
Also, before I leave for today, a simple thing to sleep on, if the bug of wall charging is fixed, how would that turn out? What would the after effects be and how much damage needs to be compensated for it to be removed.
I don’t see other classes having the same ramp up time like Raekor before being able to deal damage. Neither needing to use that buggy wall charging.
Or needing the perfect rolled gear for ww and still it requires a lot, to do less than others. Ofc. classes needs fixing. But I don’t see others being worse than this.
Okay, take uliannas again, the 2 set bonus applies an exploding palm on the target on the third hit with a generator, this is considered a proc, so it cannot apply ad to the explosion. That means the best way to play is to hit a target twice, run out and hit a second target so you don’t trigger the 2-set bonus but trigger the mystic rhythm passive, then manually apply exploding palm, instantly hit seven sided strike and boom, your ep has both ad and 40% increased damage from mystic rhythm.
Then you hopefully can just run around and try to reapply it by spreading it to others, if unsuccessful, you have to start over.
It’s pretty stupid, and could be fixed if they just removed the 2-set bonus.
So in this case is see raekor bug being in a problematic place, since it actually provides a buff to the class, so losing it would mean losing damage.
I still don’t see it as buggy as Raekor, with the need of that much time before you can deal damage consistantly. Or the requirement of ww with it’s need for perfect rolls.
It’s problematic because the whole mechanic about the set, is actually hindering the potential of the build.
In gearing, I’d argue that while yes ww has it bad, others have it bad too, most classes have a set amount of stats that they need, and if unlucky, you could end up in offhand hell. Seeing as shields and offhands have such a huge pool of possible combinations, due to them having skill damage for a variety of skills. That one might just be me, but the main issues I found with ww is rerolling the swords, but luckily, that’s only two items.
Considering people having tested this well enough, the same ones knows it takes the perfect stats to do decent. And on top of that, paragon levels. On top of that gems and so forth. To do less than other builds.
Best scenario for me would be to have a balance for all classes. To get rid of the zdps’ing or make it viable for all.
And, as they promised back in 2012, having to choose from all damage skills and be, well “viable enough” with them.
But it’s still my opinion that Barbarians lack the most. And without getting just something for their sets, while the others did, as well as monk… They are the worst right now. I don’t consider zdpsing and being wanted that way a win.
TuneOut,
There are several things that you have criticized.
To at least address one thing that was mentioned a couple of times:
Yes,. I have read each post in this thread (as well as other threads that I posted in). For the barb 2.6.6 buff proposal, I have read this now at least 25 times. I even created word and excel files where I have listed all the legendaries and passives that were requested to be buffed, their extent, and which had new affixes. This was broken down to list 1 and 2.
I assumed that anyone who read in detail the barb proposal would know that table was from there. I was sick and tired of being accused of not reading it. If I can tell everyone that list 2 asks for buffs to 9 passive skills (as I posted earlier), I think that they would stop being so obtuse. How would anyone in their right mind know that number unless they studied the proposal in excruciating detail.
I will admit that I rushed to post 204 in part because I wanted an answer to the question about the table that I initially asked in post 195 that you did not answer. You ignored my question when you made post 203. I wanted to get it out quickly just in case you were just making a short forum visit. I am sorry that I did not read your post 203 before making 204.
As explained in A, I am well-versed in the barb buff proposal. Your question is based on a false premise. I never said that I proved others wrong saying that barbs are not the worst class. The data is clear, barbs are the worst class in 2019 relative to solo greater rift clears. In 2018, it was demon hunters and witch doctors.
C) I can’t find the specific question but I think you expressed concern about me not taking into consideration the bugs/wall charging explot/wonkiness of barb builds. Certainly, there are problems with these mechanics/broken mechanics, but as others have pointed out this is common in other classes. We can argue about which classes have the worst. The class that historically has complained the most is wizards (even though now with their big DPS buffs, they do not complain much anymore).
P.S. I like my proposal to buff base damage using a class-specific modifier for underperforming classes. Another method to boost an underperforming class for solo GRs without a straight damage is modify GR monster hp increase per GR level. For a class that Blizzard wanted ~10 greater rift solo boost for high tier GRs, Blizzard could simply buff monster hp by 15.7% rather than 17% for that class when playin solo greater rifts.
Aside 1: You have accused me of derailing another thread in this and another thread. I might listen to the impartial MVP on this matter.
Aside 2. You have accused me of making posts just to get my post count up (I assume to get to trust level 3). If so, trust level 3 only requires replies to 10 different threads that I had accomplished in the first week of the new forum. I have no need to artificially boost the number of posts that I make. The real limitation for trust level 3, it turns out is time (visiting the forum 50 days during rolling 100 day windows) and having read 500 topics and 20,000 posts again across a rolling 100 day window. Currently, across all D3 forums, there are ~14,900 posts. Yes, I have tables with this data too.
Oh man this thread is derailing bad.
Micro, my only concern: please consider this.
I would like you to average (or weighted average) first 30 players in each LBs.
Then Do it for first 40.
Then first 50
Then first 60
so on
You will see that your observations will significantly change depending on the data you consider. Therefore we always talk about class average joes in balancing. First 1000 clears in each class are not necessarily in the same league to allow such comparisons.
Your observations are based on the assumption that the clearing effectiveness and efficiency of every class is the same. This is not true.
i don’t know why people even bother with him , he is just a troll trying to get to L3 and nothing else
Okay, well this will be derailing it a bit, but would barbs be ready to lose the ww tornadoes to have it more tailored for the average Joe? Ofcourse with a massive increased damage.
Would it be a good trade off?, cause a few things would happen then, first the need to gather mobs will lessen, you’ll still be clearing fairly large aoe, but not attacking a whole screen of demons and their moms at the same time. It still favors ad, and it will cause a lot less lag.
I refuse to read that wall of text. As written before : you are considered a troll to me now.
Have replied plenty of times why. Adios. Go make new posts with more bull.
The game has changed. The focus has changed. If you play just one class, you are years behind.
Perhaps the game has changed for you, but you’re not speaking for everyone.
The fact is, not everybody has the time to learn and develop different characters. I have a WD that I started in 2016. I just reached 1000 Paragon this year, I’ve been playing casually throughout the years (although a lot more this season).
I’d like to feel that if I play this character, I have as good a chance to reach a high level with this character as with any other character.
Achieving character balance is not easy, and I think maybe people underestimate how hard that is to do. But on the other hand, it should be top priority for the devs, and in fact, they have said so.
It’s frustrating for WD players, for example, to know that they can spend time with a character, and then it’s unplayable in groups because it’s too weak in team play. I think people bought this product with the idea that all classes would be equally viable in all situations.
I bought this product thinking that all legendaries would be exciting and I could play any class I liked.
The “legendaries would be exciting” is total bunk and WDs/Crusaders are totally out of the meta. RIP.
You do not need class balance if you’re that kind of player though.
WD is the second best trash killer class, second only to a completely broken build.