I kinda wish they made different leaderboards for the different builds. Since we don’t really know the top push done with frenzy as some of those WW guys might have done higher just not as high as there WW.
Yeah, me too. On the old forum I actually started a thread asking for just that thing. It would be really helpful. Never got a response to that, though if memory serves me right, I think Matt C said that he’d like to see something along those lines… I guess we’ll see what the future brings. Fingers crossed!
They could even just keep the same board but allow players to inspect peoples top clear with all builds they have played.
Yep, that would be great. That or separate boards would both be excellent options… and honestly, it doesn’t seem like it should be that hard to do. I mean, there are separate boards already for Hardcore, Normal, Seasonal…
Speaking of pushing, do you guys know if there’s a repository somewhere with the GR map layouts? Specifically, Festering, Battlefields, Desert and Moors? Would be helpful to know the potential layouts and Pylon spawn points.
I haven’t pushed enough yet to familiarize myself and find I’m often running into dead ends and wasting some time.
Sadly, I don’t think that exists, because it would be great!
I looked for this a month ago and couldn’t find anything.
Having said that, those 4 in particular are generally worth exploring because they can have pylon spawn points or packs near the corners - especially Battlefields where the pylons can spawn off those tiny peninsulas in the corners, so you’ll probably want to uncover the whole map anyway. I believe there are essentially two variations of those 4 maps - the ones with the square (most common and the best since u can drag the entire map full circle) and the smaller ones that only go in one direction.
Festering is my personal fav (despite the occasional narrow passage that messes up spear) because it has the potential to be ENORMOUS (Wudijo got 100% progression on a single festering map for his his world #1 monk clear) - Battlefields a close 2nd - great consistency and clean layout but less progression potential.
When you guys are pushing and you see a juicy conduit, how do you determine whether to use it immediately or to save it and gather up packs?
I generally try to gather up as many packs as possible, but there have been occasions where I regretted it. A good example is if you spawn a conduit earlier on in a map (say floor 1) and you know it’s not gonna be a square map that allows u to drag the entire map of elites back efficiently. You’ll have to travel far down the map, and then bring the packs ALL THE WAY BACK. And then after you’ve finally killed them… you’ve gotta walk all the way back down to the exit again! That’s 3 trips! This is probably the most common situation where looking back at it, I wish I had just hit the conduit immediately and then dragged packs along with me as I progress toward the end of the map, saving myself from backtracking twice. You may be left with an elite that you couldn’t get to near the end, but I think the time you save gathering everything up and travelling all over the map more than makes up for it.
Anyway just wanted to see what though process you guys use when facing these kind of scenarios.
Well, at a high level of push, I guess you just have to do the mental math and realize that, with a conduit spawn in that spot, you basically just failed the rift.
But, let’s assume the push is not quite so rigorous, and look at some numbers.
You’ve got 900 seconds to complete a GR before you fail. To keep up with the timer, you obviously need to get progression% equal to that proportion of the timer. For instance, you need to get 10% progression every 90 seconds, to hold even. And of course, you actually need to stay ahead of the timer, because you need time to kill the RG!
Let’s say that in a non-terrible map, it takes you about 25 seconds to whirl your way down the map until you’ve found 3 elite groups. Then, if we’re being very generous, let’s say it’ll take you another 35 seconds to drag them back to the conduit. (The final 25 second walk back to where you left off is something you would have had to do anyway, so we won’t count that as a negative). So that’s 60 seconds, or about 6.7% of your total time allotted.
A purple orb from killing an elite gives you 1.15% progression. You get an average of 3.5 of these from each pack (3 from blues, 4 from yellows). You also get the progression from the base mob type, which I think is going to be about 0.2% on average, per enemy, and let’s say that the average pack has maybe 5 members. So that’s an additional 1% per pack, and about 5% progression, average, per elite pack. You can probably assume you’ll get another 5% from killing trash with the conduit. And, let’s say it takes you the full 60 seconds to zap all those guys to death, for 120 seconds of time spent total, or 13.3% of your total time. So, roughly speaking, that’s around 20% progression from the conduit, at the expense of 13.3% of your time. Not horrible.
On the other hand, if you had just grabbed the conduit and ran with it, you could probably have killed 2 of those 3 packs. Since with FOT the conduit lasts 60 seconds, and we’ve assumed it would take 25 seconds to run to that end point where you find the 3rd pack, I think 2 packs, and about half the trash, would be doable (assuming about 25 seconds of moving through the rift while spearing enemies together, and 35 seconds of purely focusing on zapping the pile). So that would be 12.5% progression, but at the expense of only 60 seconds, or 6.7% of your time.
20 / 13.3 = 1.50, and 12.5 / 6.7 = 1.86
So, it does look like (in this obviously very theoretical scenario), it is more efficient to “grab and go”.
4 Likes
I love your quant-based approach to things Rage! You must have a math background 
Very theoretical but what you’ve described (in terms of the scenario) is quite accurate and has happened to me a handful of times. I’ve seen a few videos of guys like DarkPotato who have also grabbed the conduit immediately mid-run.
My first inclination is always to try to accumulate packs near the conduit, but it’s burnt me a few times on wasted time gathering and backtracking - especially on some maps that aren’t as efficient for gathering and dragging.
I’m gonna have to tweak my approach and be more flexible with the Conduits since at 130 I absolutely need to fully optimize it to get a clear in time.
Don’t you hate it when doing gem ups/speeds and you land a good rift with sequential pushing maps? Had started on Battlefields and felt this would be a good rift to push so I hit record. This one felt like it totally could have been a 134/35 run, but instead it was a waste of a gem up. Could have, would have, ahh.
Good question, this was also on my mind, hence my post earlier about maps if they’re available online. I’ve been burned exactly as you described a few times now that if the condi is spawned very early I just run with it.
Great analytics, like Blayze said, with the one minute FoT, sometimes you can’t be too picky and need to be more agile. I guess ultimately, just do more runs and build up your game sense and play it by experience.
1 Like
Hmm. That’s a good point. But I can’t shake the feeling I’m seeing clears in Season that just aren’t possible in non-Season. Mind you, feelings aren’t quantitative, but neither is fishing.
The only gear variable in the mix is the multiplier from FnR, and since I never play Season, I don’t concern myself with it. The above comparisons are rough but it’s always assumed that main stat is factored into Paragon comparisons (the same can be said for gem levels–150 vs 130 isn’t going to produce 5 GRs worth of difference.
It’s not worth comparing Core vs Crimson if you’re talking about Season play. In non-Season, Crimson’s will likely eke out the very highest clears, but Core isn’t far behind.
Depends. If you’re really pushing the limits of your build/main stat and spawn a Condi early, RIP. You can take it and make a bee-line to a T-tile, but success in fishing–true fishing–depends on using a Condi to kill several elite packs. A Power can be used to similar effect, but it’s better to get a Power for the RG, obviously.
If, on the other hand, you’re not truly pushing the limits, an early Condi may not cancel a push attempt. You might be able to kill enough trash (providing there’s enough density and it offers solid progression).
Happens all the dang time. Feeling you there, my friend.
Don’t know if anyone else has been playing Doom Eternal but . . . I can’t stop playing it. It’s so good, so addictive, that I’m playing it through for the 4th time–twice on Ultra-Violence, and now twice on Nightmare.
And much like Doom (2016), the soundtrack friggin’ slams.
1 Like
I spent a few hours pushing 136s the other night. Had a decent festering with even progression and a condi spawned about half way thru. Well the condi spawned in the middle of the bridge that happens. When that happens you can not make one pile. There will be two. So I had to take and kill one pile first then the second but 3 elites were left there alone and no trash left on the map. Even with that terrible luck I had already doubled the progression bar so I said move on and lets get the clear on the next map. Well my follow up maps were barracks/caves/caves. Lets just say I stopped pushing and did not continue.
Mah dude.
All the feels.
That sucks dude - we’ve all been there.
Just out of curiosity, over a “few hours” how many full-on GRs will you actually play (let’s define that as completing more than half)?
60 keys and I only went half way like 6 times.
1 Like
Wait, what?! Mr T cries? Is this just after his wife discovered a Cash-4-Gold envelope and mailed all his necklaces off?
What I just realized is blizzard seems like they are a big fan of WW mechanics. We of course have barb wwrend. We have Monk WW aka POJ and now we are goning to have DH ww in the new set. It is literally just another ww build. They need to come up to something a little different.
Barbs are strong, right? So, with biceps like these, we could dual-wield heavy things. You know, like a Monk in main-hand, and a DH in off-hand. SpinCeption™
3 Likes
No, sir. This is about feelings and pitying the fool and lots of gold chains and bicep curls. It’s complicated. A man once lit my lawn on fire and he didn’t even live here. What am I to make of that? He was crude and carried a a cudgel he called “Crespin.” There is no accounting for some things.