Exactly. Armor bonus + higher AS (better CD management) is big help.
Without good Flavor I am missing CDR roll on amulet. With IB no problem. With Ambo’s variant I am sporadically losing IP. That was in that GR130 run which I missed a few second. 25s remaining, RG has around 10% life, I thought that I catch it in time without problem. But I lose IP for miliseconds and I got hit in that super small window → one hit kill (I have enough tougness to survive hit of any RG, but only with IP on).
If you’re talking about Season play, throw everything out the window. The Season theme is so OP that Season clears are not worth analysis.
If you’re talking about non-Season clears, yes, hard-cast Rend is worth huge amounts of damage. You might look at the NA leaderboards for some examples of 3.5-4.5k Paragon clears that use AD. Bear in mind most players are likely copying top clear builds without understanding the full nuance of how to play them.
I try some comparison. I have 30k main stat. That is 76% more dmg. WW5 + CC + CoE is 30% more dmg. Together 2,3x dmg. Tougness is not problem for you (even with lower paragon), because BoM (I have maybe less tougness with my paragon without BoM).
2,3 dmg is +5 GR. 125 + 5 = 130. If it is that big difference (HC rend with AD), why only 130 (compare with my GR130 missed a few second without big fishing)?
And you have not only AD + HC rend, but spear too.
And as I wrote, super quick demolition trash is not only advantage. It is also disadvantage → you lose some bloodbath dmg on eliltes (constant slower trash dying without HC rend).
I already wrote it. With 4k paragon I found max clear on EU GR135 (paragon 4,3k), it is with max AD on gear (I checked it). I play EU, thats way I have to look at EU (I have to watch detail of build). EU clears is a bit higher than US.
And of course I am talking about NS.
I agree that my claim is just that- a claim- until proven, but keep in mind that the figure I arrived at already takes into account a much lower rate of dealing AD than the possible max.
I wanted to look at this point of yours in particular:
I can see what you’re saying, but I think that this can generally be filed under “good problems to have”. If you’re slaughtering all the trash really quickly, that both gives you progression and means you can move on to new density, while pulling elites along with you using spear (if you’re using it). And, especially in a gg map, where you might be towing 5 elites and then murdering them with a power or conduit pylon, that equates to a significantly quicker accumulation of progression.
Well, consider this possibility: maybe you’re just really good at WhirlRend.
I mean, I’m a pretty good Leapquake player, and in the last era I had, as far as I know, (worldwide) the 3rd highest Fire Leap clear and the 2nd highest Phys Leap clear. The 3 players ahead of me in either variant had roughly 3k, 6k, and 8k more paragon than me, and Legendary gems 25-30 ranks higher. In addition, I was many tiers ahead of lots of players who had many thousands more paragon than I did, and again, better gems.
Q: So, using your way of looking at things, should I conclude that, statistically speaking, doubling, tripling, or quadrupling my paragon and leveling up my gems might not improve my max clear at all, or might even cause it to go down?
A: Uh, no.
Individual player skill (and determination) significantly deforms any attempt to compare two clears “purely by the numbers”.
I’ve been quite impressed with how you took what I said about Ambo/Doom in good faith and pretty much just ran with it. So, at this juncture, I guess I’d say you should just see for yourself: get some practice with spear, get some AD on gear, and see how it goes.
You are right, that comparing diferent setups is best with same player. In future I will use spear with higher tougness. With spear is better grouping elites, but without spear is possible too (only slower and sometimes is better to leave elite). Key is doing some dmg to some mobs (moving with whole group of mobs with clever WW) when draging elites without spear.
But HC rend I don’t know. I am able to cast HC rend, that isn’t problem. But this playstyle not suit to me. I will see in future. Now I have not gear with AD.
Season update, finally got another chance to try 117.
First three floor were horrible, narrow corridors and not much density, I was actually quite some way behind the timer for a while, got lucky with a big pack and a pylon at the end of the third floor, combined with three elite packs, which resulted in me being just in front of the time when I went to floor 4.
Fourth floor was a big open map with mobs everywhere, no pylons though, pulled everything together, and melted them watching the progression bar fly up to 100%, spawned the spider boss (I never remember their names) and completed the rift in 14.45.
I think there is still plenty of potential to get higher, even at my Paragon level, but maps and density play such a huge part in being able to beat the timer, I understand why people need to fish for a good map, but I also see why people absolutely detest fishing.
That is me in a nutshell, I usually go to the GR unless I am way behind on the timer or I haven’t much time to play a few GR’s. I can see in higher GRifts fishing becomes a bigger necessity because it starts being a huge waste of time.
For me at the level of GR I am at finishing the GR no matter what is good way to raise my Paragon level and gain extra practice at the same time.
Yes, even on failed ones I’ve been finishing, if nothing else for the extra Paragons, gear etc.
I think we’re in the same boat of the “absolutely no luck in the GR’s maps”.
Also, I hate the fishing, so in the 30th key I start to get impacient and even with a hellish map I try (and fail). Still, I’m improving my AS skill with that so thats not a waste of time at all…
To get a decent map I’ve got almost 10 catacombs, another 10 cathedrals then 10 split between the sewers and the Maltael’s map, that number is not exact but the fishing for me is like that. Thats because I’ve not even considered the “banished’s realm” (dunno the name) and the caves.
To finish my compain I must say here: I’ve never seen the ACT 1 map (the one before the cemetery). 
Yeah, I seem to get a lot of tight linear maps, and then I go and run some speeds, and there is open maps and pylons everywhere.
I get close to teaching my laptop the flying skill 
Does switching out Passives Ruthless and Berserker for Relentless & Superstition sound productive, so that one can actually stop WW for 1 full second to have all HC ticks benefit from AD (one would need to continuously HC just before the WW DR bar drops)?
This would keep Ambo from canceling HC within that 9 yard radius, which would result in more damage.
Negative. Both types of Rends do the same damage, so it doesn’t matter which one is applied. The only thing that matters is that you hard-cast once or twice in density to proc AD. Once you’ve gotten those procs, you spin, wait a second, and hard-cast again. The safe and efficient amount of time before you start spinning is 2 hard-casts. The optimal play style is described in the OP, Part 3. Read that section carefully as it has all the info on how the build actually functions.
Most players won’t need defensive passives in this build, especially if you have Band of Might + Stomp.
Here i go again, paragon 4,3k NS Europe
135 was clear’d inside 100 keys, my wood was with hulks and golems.
I got AD on both IB’s and shoulders, my rotation is simple:
There’s no need HC vs guardian.
I still dont use spear, i got TS: Demoralize instead for grouping / damage reduction.
When u use HC builid its important to have heavy dmg range on mainhand (good dmg roll + %dmg).
Ambo-Rend without AD is for me around 5-6 tiers weaker.
I still miss good FoT, but dmg im doing in density when phy rotation is on is just incredible.
Im still looks good at 136, im lowest paragon player in top 100 solo barbs (currently im rank 47).
Tip: if u want shoulders with Res / Rend / CDR / AD or gloves with 2 crit / CDR / AD try use Cube recipe (Nilfur). My current shoulders with 100 res / 7 cdr / 15 rend / 20 ad from this recipe help’d a lot. Imo its super important to get all right lines (no str after all) even if item is non-ancient.
HC at 20 demoralized hulks is just amazing and they give awesome progress. Guardian was random (Erethon).
Good comparison.
But I believe that yours max without HC rend without AD on gear is a bit higher than 129-130.
Now I have cleared 130 (without HC rend, without AD and without spear yet). 7 keys, first I tried(first good map) was success. 1,5 min. to spare. Conduit yes, but not best (not bad either), no Power pylon.
We are same paragon, we have comparable gear. I don’t have 150 lvl gems like you, I am playing only solo. I don’t have good Flavor (much worse than yours), but I play meanwhile with primal another amulet. Maybe with my not good Flavor it will a bit better, but I am not ready to max fishing for pylons.
Now I trust that 132 is for me possible (without HC rend) with hard fishing. And 131 with only a bit more fishing.
And I used for 130 Ambo’s variant.
Maybe I will try HC rend in future when I will have AD gear. I have perfect CoE (primal) with AD, better than with dmg (with dmg which I used is perfect ChC + ChD + dmg roll, but only 184% element), but I don’t have weapons with AD (one weapon I can reroll to AD, second not - in both setup).
Just a season note, this is different than what I see in practice. Many many of the top 10-20 barbs in season have superstition or even nerves of steel. Again, this is season specific because there the name of the game is only surviving in the biggest group you can build.
I have a question.
The guide says rend from Ambo’s doesn’t benefit from Attack Speed. But I read somewhere you need 2APS to maximise ur DPS and hit 19 frame WWs (due to lamentation stacking it 2 times)
So is it true you need 2aps or is it a myth? Lets say I never hard cast rends to make it simple.
Another question is, is it true that when a mob dies near another mob within the bloodbath range, that mob which is still alive will get 4x rend stacks? which means double ur damage for a short time?
Example, a white mobs dies near an elite, then the elite gets 4x rend stacks?
Cause I heard with bloodbath rune dying monster applies un-runed rends which stacks with runed rend.
I did not see this mention anywhere in the guide or I might have missed it, thanks in advance.
I think your missing the point.
Correct. Ambo cancels the potential of a full 12 yards of AD radius because of its 9 yard radius. This leaves you with only 3 yards (or less because you’re traveling towrds the direction of your HC, therefore negating your AD procs) of potential AD procs.
Relentless and Superstition is to help mitigate incoming damage (since you won’t WW for a full 2 seconds) as you HC for a full 2 second so that you can capitalize on all 12 yards worth of AD proc from all potentially contributing enemies.
Nice work! Congrats on the clear! I see that, like me, you fish for those low-Paragon clears. We’re suckers for punishment!
I was replying to DieHard, who plays non-Season. For Seasonal players, yes, you are correct, and that is noted in the OP.
Well, it’s true, but you’re hitting it if you use either the BK or IB set, and even if you don’t, your Dust Devils also apply Rend within 9 yards.
Here’s my stance on attack speed: Don’t worry about it.
Well, Bloodbath only applies another Rend, so it can stack once more. To my knowledge, you can never have more than 2 active Rends on an enemy at a given time (via Lamentation). You may want to test this out to be sure.
That’s not terribly important if you’ve properly grouped density. Even with pixel pulls, which you can see in my clear video, you can see that density will inevitably spread out. But Ambo’s doesn’t cancel AD procs–they trigger the instant you hard-cast. You WW between them to keep up the Wastes 4 DR and Taeguk (and IB stacks if you use that weapon set).
Not sure why you’d need to worry about that 2-second window. If you have Band of Might, Wrath, and the Wastes 4 bonus active with Taeguk, and you have the gear and Augments necessary to fish a given rift, a 2-second window is nothing to worry about. The Wastes 4 bonus last for 3 seconds after you stop WWing.
Don’t overthink the process. What’s covered in the OP works.
Are you positive? If I remember correctly, Rage said that AD proc were not applied instantly upon HC, but were distributed over ticks. If you’re right, then yes, it doesn’t matter, but if you’re wrong, then it greatly matters.
I’m guessing you’ve never tried HCing as your only form of sustain. And this again only matters if AD is distributed per ticks.