I have cleared GR129 and miss GR130 a few second without much fishing (about 10 keys on GR130). With more fishing GR131 possible.
I play without AD and without HC rend and even without spear (but I will play with spear in future when I will have more tougness to drop WC).
Similar paragon and gear clears with HC rend GR133-134 with much more fishing.
I don’t enjoy HC rend play and I will stay without it.
And actual comparison Ambo’s + Doom vs IB. With IB I missed GR130 a few second. With Ambo’s I was in ± comparable rift in time, but I died at RG (10% life remaining and 25s spare) and it was on start CD on WoTB -> I missed again a few second.
Ambo’s variant maybe a little ahead, but almost no difference. And I have a bit better Ambos + Doom than IB.
Thanks for the feedback! I agree–Istvan’s is likely the best combo for Hardcore unless you have the CDR and stats needed to keep perma-Wrath. But if you do, you get Bloodfunnel, and that’s a big deal.
Hard to quantify because of varying rift conditions and gear rolls. If you have less than 100% AD, your procs won’t deal as much damage as your Rends, and thus will provide much less benefit. But if you have, say, 130% AD, your procs deal more damage than your Rends, and this is going to be massive in proper density.
Someone who is more math-minded may be able to give you a better answer, but speaking from experience, the farther you push, the more AD will matter. I believe the gap is significant.
I don’t think that’s true. Consider that AD procs do more than your Rend damage and you’ll see what I mean. Anytime you collect several screens of density, you can instantly proc 100%+ of your Rend damage via hard-cast. When I fished 125 @ 17k main stat, it was absolutely essential to hard-cast in density, and as you can see in the video, it absolutely demolishes trash. On anything resembling a GG rift, this is going to put you way ahead. Without hard-cast Rend, I would not have cleared 125–or 122 for that matter.
Not saying you should play in a way that you don’t find fun–quite the opposite, really!–but I do think you’re downplaying how powerful hard-cast Rend is in density.
Ive Just dropped a primal Lil’ Rogue with DMG, STR, LpH and rolled Resource cost into CDR.
I’m planning switch my BK for IP since I’m getting near 130 pushes, should I save It for that (I’ve read the guide but I’m afraid of switching to a bad rolled weapon).
It doesn’t seem that Ambos overwrites Bloodbath. It might not be as difficult as we might think. And it would also make it a much more fluid experience.
Hmm. Well, it’s not a GG weapon since you would want AD + CDR, but it will have to do. You might have been better off rolling Life per Hit to CDR and keeping RCR.
Is worth to give up my BK for that IP?
In one BK I’ve AVG DMG + STR + AD (or % DMG, dunno what should I run in it) + CDR.
The other one have AVG DMG + STR + AD + % DMG (I can roll this to CDR but I’ve already got perma Wrath in the pushes).
No, not that direct Ambo-Rends override Bloodbath Rends, but rather that currently, Bloodbaths take on the characteristics of the Rend that spawned them. A Bloodbath from Ambo-Rend doesn’t proc AD, and A Bloodbath from HC Rend does. Bloodbath doesn’t proc nearly as often as Ambo-Rend does (just when you kill an enemy), so making HC Bloodbaths un-overwritable could lead to a lot of Ambo-Bloodbaths having no effect.
I’ll be frank: if I could choose between the devs spending time buffing literally any other Barb build, or further buffing WhirlRend, I would much prefer the former option.
WhirlRend is strong enough as is, I’m not going to be part of any current effort to make it stronger still.
This is sort of true, but also sort of misleading. The amount of total damage dealt by AD depends on the density of mobs.
For instance, if you were fighting in a high density area, each enemy could have 20+ other enemies within 10 yards. Let’s say you had only the 50% paragon AD, and that each Rend does 100 damage per tick. Each of those enemies will take 100 damage from Rend, and an average of:
100 * 0.2 (AD Proc chance) * 0.5 (AD %) * 20 (enemies within 10 yards) = 200 damage.
So even in this circumstance, with AD nowhere but paragon, a fairly dense environment will result in 2/3 of your damage coming from AD, and 1/3 directly from Rend.
Your total 300 damage is 3x what you were getting from just Ambo-Rend, which if you could get full utilization all the time (not possible) moves you up +7 GRs. And 20 enemies certainly isn’t the limit, you can get above 30, especially when using both Spear and Stomp.
Bottom line: you will ALWAYS do a LOT more damage by hard-casting Rend when you’re in density, even with no AD rolls on gear!
And if you consider that equation with 130% AD and 30 enemies:
100 * 0.2 * 1.3 * 30 = 780, aka 1x damage from Rend and 7.8x damage from AD.
8.8x damage is enough to go up almost 14 GRs. Now, of course you aren’t going to get 8.8x over the course of a whole rift. But you can definitely get at least 3-4x, which is +8 GRs.
So:
I’m estimating about 8 GRs, assuming you’re comparing with a player who deploys HC Rends properly.
Thanks for your notes on the comparative benefits. I think you’re right that if Ambo + Doom is better, it’s better by inches, not feet or yards. And the IB setup definitely seems easier to play.
Get 2 mobs, 1 of whom is within Rend range, 1 of whom is beyond, but within range of the first’s AD proc. Get 50% AD via Paragon. Hard-cast Rend on the the first mob. When it procs AD, how much damage will it do to the second mob?
Answer:
Amen.
Other Barb builds need attention. Hard-casting Rend isn’t a huge deal since using it pays off big time. If folks want to avoid using it, they can.
Managed to finish this one in two horrible maps sequence. https://imgur.com/4Qgvpc2
I’ve open with Festering Woods then the Fortress from Act III and finished the run in the Repository of Bones.
The first map was like heaven, managed to get more than 50% progress in a few minutes there, the following two were a nightmare… Later I’ll try to get the 125.
PS.: The HC Rend tip you guys gave here is doing miracles in my runs. After a few casts when I manage to get a good group of mobs they just explode so fast… To get the 125 is just a matter of luck fishing.
What is considered HC rends properly? Aside from clicking on the rend button, do you have to spin away as well to keep Ambos from hitting? I usually HC rend while Im spinning instead of stopping there.
I read that part, but it doesn’t say clearly if just clicking the button is fine or if you need to stay put for 1 sec. Im just curious, now I click on rend while spinning but wanted to know if that’s it or if there’s something else to it.
No, because all you’re looking for is the AD proc. The actual Rends–hard-cast vs Ambo’s–are doing the same amount of damage. You just want the AD procs.
You are right with AD calculation. But 8 GRs is not possible. I will compare WW5 + CC + CoE (max push variation):
without AD on gear: 10% more dmg on weapons, dmg roll on ring → around 17% more dmg and some tougness on shoulders.
with high AD and HC rend in density you gain very much dmg, but you lose some bloodbath dmg on elites (trash is dying too quickly)
you can’t spam HC rend all the time (I mean with WW each 3s) → you will die without 10k+ paragon
you will be much slower on finishing density, on RG and super density is not all the time (even in very good rift)
Without HC rend, without AD and even without spear my max will be GR131 (I am sure with GR131, but maybe 132 is possible). Where is some GR139 clears with same paragon (with HC rend and AD)?
With 4k paragon I found max clear on EU GR135 (paragon 4,3k), it is with max AD on gear.
And I don’t have good Flavor. With good Flavor I will go 1-2GR higher.
I will try more fishing in future without AD and without HC rend and we will see comparison with max clears with AD with ± same paragon…
